Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-05-2018, 05:42 PM   #1
Veteran Member
 
City: Redington Shores
Country: US
Vessel Name: Andiamo
Vessel Model: Mainship 34 Trawler
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 30
Bent Rudder

I have an accepted offer in on a 2006 34T, but haven't finalized the deal yet.
The rudder is bent about 3/4 inch to starboard.
It looks like the rudder was hard over when a previous skipper backed the boat into something other than water.
We sea trialled the boat and it didn't appear to affect steering; the boat turns easily lock to lock, no binding.
When looking below, there were lots of spider cracks in the prop tunnel near the lower flange, and it appears there has been a bit of water intrusion through one of the four flange bolts (not sure if flange is the correct term here).

My questions are:
1) Should a rudder bent by 3/4 inch be a concern. Can I run that way indefinitely, or will the rudder shaft need to be straightened? Is that an expensive proposition, over-and-above haul-out costs.

2) Should I be concerned about the integrity of the fiberglass under where the gelcoat has the spider cracks? How can I be sure the fiberglass is ok? The surveyor basically just said keep an eye on it.

Any thoughts/ideas greatly appreciated!
__________________
Advertisement

daviddraper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 06:03 PM   #2
Guru
 
City: Fairport
Country: United States
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,509
I’ve had a prop and shaft shop straighten rudder posts that were far more than 3/4” off true.
__________________

diver dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 06:10 PM   #3
Veteran Member
 
City: Redington Shores
Country: US
Vessel Name: Andiamo
Vessel Model: Mainship 34 Trawler
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 30
Does it need to be done though, if not appearing to interfere with steering?
daviddraper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 06:17 PM   #4
Guru
 
City: Sydney
Country: Australia
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,646
My question is what the hell did it hit what are the prop shafts and props like ?
gaston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 06:21 PM   #5
Veteran Member
 
City: Redington Shores
Country: US
Vessel Name: Andiamo
Vessel Model: Mainship 34 Trawler
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 30
The prop and shaft appear to be ok. Based on the bend, my guess would be the boat lightly "bumped" something going backwards and the rudder was the only casualty. I'm just guessing, because I don't have access to the previous owners.
daviddraper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 07:11 PM   #6
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 9,602
If the shaft is bent it may not doing the gland any favors. Fix it next haulout?
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 07:25 PM   #7
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,176
I would contact a prop shop. The better ones can straighten shafts and should have no problem straightening a bent rudder. I'm guessing they will give you an estimate over the phone.

Should you do it? I would. In the process, I would pull the rudder through hull bearing tube. Check the tube, fiberglass surrounding it, and mounting hardware. Reassemble everything and make sure there are no leaks.

Why should you do it? If for no other reason, peace of mind.

One final thought. Most insurance companies will require a copy of the survey before insuring the boat. Depending on how the survey reads, they may require you to rectify the problem within 30 days of purchase or worse. You may want to show the survey to perspective insurers before closing on the boat. If you are having trouble with getting insurance because of it, that may be a point for either having the owner do it or negotiating an adjustment to the price.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 07:26 PM   #8
Guru
 
Sailor of Fortune's Avatar
 
City: Saint Augustine, Fl.
Country: Port of St Augustine ,FL
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,533
I would have damage repaired as a condition of sale. Owner can't bark too much because any buyer will require the same thing.
__________________
Jack (Steve?)
Sailor of Fortune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 07:38 PM   #9
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor of Fortune View Post
I would have damage repaired as a condition of sale. Owner can't bark too much because any buyer will require the same thing.
+1. Any peripheral damage should be fixed by owner as well. Don't let the brokers minimize this just so they can close the deal.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 07:39 PM   #10
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,350
My first though is, "run away'.The shaft runs true? Any visible damage to the prop? Cutlass bearing shot?

Second thought, get a yard to check the shaft for 'true' and runout.
Check the shoe. Is it bent? What about the condition of the rudder bearings?

Get a second survey (different surveyor) concentrating on the damage.
Get an estimate for the repair, schedule a time , deduct the cost from the price, get it fixed and realize, this damage history should follow the boat.
I suspect, the broker knows what happened and reluctant to tell you. That should tell you something about the broker.

As I told the selling broker more than once, 'there will always be another boat.'
You aren't 'married' to that boat yet.
__________________
I will update this as soon as I can think of something snappy.
OldDan1943 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 08:05 PM   #11
Guru
 
City: Fairport
Country: United States
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,509
If there is no rudder post leak and no binding, it certainly would not be a critical issue, IMO. Certainly could wait until scheduled haulout.
The spider cracks in gelcoat are likely stress induced; one just one side? Not familiar with "prop tunnel" other than hulls with twins.
diver dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 08:18 PM   #12
Guru
 
DHeckrotte's Avatar
 
City: Philadelphia, PA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Revel
Vessel Model: 1984 Fu Hwa 39
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 997
Have your seller fix the boat and some knowledgeable person certify that the 'spider cracks' are a non-issue. You may one day wish to sell that boat.

The damage can be fixed but why should it be you?
DHeckrotte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 08:53 PM   #13
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHeckrotte View Post
Have your seller fix the boat and some knowledgeable person certify that the 'spider cracks' are a non-issue. You may one day wish to sell that boat.

The damage can be fixed but why should it be you?
Great idea.... provided it is done by a knowledgeable yard and craftsmen.

Often 'items' are part of 'conditions to be completed prior to the sale'
__________________
I will update this as soon as I can think of something snappy.
OldDan1943 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 10:50 PM   #14
Guru
 
boomerang's Avatar
 
City: Kilmarnock VA
Country: united states
Vessel Name: YellowBird MMSI 367769170
Vessel Model: 1978 Mainship m1 #149
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 529
I'd be more concerned with the fiberglass damage than the bent rudder stock. The rudder can be bent back. If the fiberglass & gelcoat is damaged, plus there was evidence of leaks, I would investigate the whole area a little closer.
__________________
-Shawn-
boomerang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2018, 12:26 AM   #15
Guru
 
tiltrider1's Avatar
 
City: Seattle
Country: USA
Vessel Name: AZZURRA
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 54
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,319
If the boat is priced right I wouldn’t worry about a rudder that is off by 3/4”. However the next buyer is going to make “You” fix it before he buys it. If you are going to end up fixing it you should do it now so you can enjoy it while you use the boat. If you can make the current owner fix it, even better.
tiltrider1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2018, 07:28 AM   #16
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,775
I would approach it with the assumption that it will need a full repair. That means haul out, drop out the rudder, straighten the shaft, repair possible other damage to the rudder (is it a glass shell, solid SS or Bronze?). I would also assume that the spider cracks will require removal of the flange, grinding back the glass to remove fractured/weak material, reglass and fare, repair to the flange itself, including possible replacement, rebedding, and reassembly of everything. That's the worst case of what this means.

With the cost of that in mind, you can then decide how you want to proceed. You could:

1) Require that the owner do the repair before you will accept the boat. This places all the risk and cost on the seller, but also may kill the deal.

2) Negotiate a price reduction, and accept the boat as-is. In this case you are assuming the risk, but if it costs less or doesn't need repair, you will be ahead - at least until the next buyer finds it and you face the situation all over again, but now as the seller rather than the buyer....

If you proceed with #2, it's your call when, if, and how extensively you actually do any repairs. There is also risk that you will get into it and find it's much worse than expected, but I tried to image worst case above. Hope I got it right or at least close....
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2018, 07:35 AM   #17
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,350
Remember, ifs you get the current owner to contract out the work, there is the "low bid" and then there is a higher price to get the job done correctly.
__________________
I will update this as soon as I can think of something snappy.
OldDan1943 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2018, 09:27 AM   #18
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,832
Rule # 1 - The buyer controls the deal
Rule # 2 - In FL, always look for hurricane damage especially things below the water line
Rule # 3 - See Rule # 1
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2018, 10:28 AM   #19
Veteran Member
 
City: Redington Shores
Country: US
Vessel Name: Andiamo
Vessel Model: Mainship 34 Trawler
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 30
Thanks everyone. Given the two (accepted) price reductions the seller has already granted on the boat sale, he isn't willing to go any lower. Due to these issues, the offer is now at the point where I could put about $15K-$20K into repairs and still not be paying more than market for the boat. To be sure, I will have the whole area inspected by a qualified technician prior to purchase to ensure the work doesn't exceed that.
daviddraper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2018, 11:05 AM   #20
Veteran Member
 
City: Redington Shores
Country: US
Vessel Name: Andiamo
Vessel Model: Mainship 34 Trawler
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 30
I've included the surveyor's pic of the rudder shaft, showing spider cracks and bolts that appear to have leaked in the past - they did not leak in the sea trial.

__________________

daviddraper is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
mainship 34, rudder, trawler

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012