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Old 11-03-2016, 07:18 PM   #1
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Adding FB Fridge MS 400 Wiring

Hey Guys,

I'm strongly considering adding a drop in fridge/freezer box to the summer kitchen on our Mainship 400. We don't have a built in grill or an ice maker up there so there is plenty of room. It would also be nicely protected by the hinged lid that covers the entire summer kitchen. I'm looking at something like this:

Isotherm BI 53 F Top-Loading Built-In Freezer

There is an AC GFI outlet under the kitchen so no problem with the AC side, but my concern is the wiring for the DC side. There is a little bit of DC wiring under the kitchen (courtesy lights) but I can't figure out how Mainship ran the wires to get there. My guess is that they are behind the headliner in the main cabin, but I REALLY don't want to pull down the headliner.

I'd like to run large enough gauge wires to allow for voltage drop from under the FB helm under the FB benches and back to the summer kitchen where I would install a fuse panel and neg buss bar. But I can't see any way to run the wire from the helm to the benches.

I don't want to run exclusively on the AC side as we spend a lot of time without the genset running and don't have an inverter.

Any 400 owners out there have any ideas?

Thanks
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Old 11-03-2016, 07:34 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougcole View Post
Hey Guys,

I'm strongly considering adding a drop in fridge/freezer box to the summer kitchen on our Mainship 400. We don't have a built in grill or an ice maker up there so there is plenty of room. It would also be nicely protected by the hinged lid that covers the entire summer kitchen. I'm looking at something like this:

Isotherm BI 53 F Top-Loading Built-In Freezer

There is an AC GFI outlet under the kitchen so no problem with the AC side, but my concern is the wiring for the DC side. There is a little bit of DC wiring under the kitchen (courtesy lights) but I can't figure out how Mainship ran the wires to get there. My guess is that they are behind the headliner in the main cabin, but I REALLY don't want to pull down the headliner.

I'd like to run large enough gauge wires to allow for voltage drop from under the FB helm under the FB benches and back to the summer kitchen where I would install a fuse panel and neg buss bar. But I can't see any way to run the wire from the helm to the benches.

I don't want to run exclusively on the AC side as we spend a lot of time without the genset running and don't have an inverter.

Any 400 owners out there have any ideas?

Thanks
Where does the AC feed source from? Can you supply DC to that location? Remove the wire from the breaker/buss. Then install an inverter and reconnect to it.
That will give you DC source through your existing AC line.
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Old 11-04-2016, 09:20 AM   #3
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I rewired both the ac s and dc. What I did was run new wire and hide it with external wire covering that can be bought at lows home, 1/2 round routed out or pbs plastic pipe cut in half colored texture to match. I left the old existing wire in place. You can cover the wire many different ways. Some of the ceiling half round covers new wiring for additional new lights.

As for inverter I installed a selector switch like the boat shore between the shore power and inverter. So you can select between shore and gen and then shore and inverter. For several years just plugged the shore power cord into the inverter. The eagle has two gen so there is a selector switch between the two gen sets.
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Old 11-04-2016, 12:11 PM   #4
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Well, not to be too snotty, but there are a couple of things wrong with your OP:


First, but maybe not too important, the specs on that freezer show 12/24V, no AC.


Secondly and more important, you talk about running wires from the helm to the summer kitchen and putting a fuse panel at the kitchen. NO!!! The fuse, if any goes near the source, not the load as it protects the wire to the load.


I can't help you with your wire routing as I owned a 34T, but if it is like the 34T there is a solenoid behind the helm that when activated with a breaker in the main salon, supplies 30 amp (I think) power to the flybridge devices. Each of those devices has its own breaker to protect the wiring. So you should do the same for your freezer.


I would run a short 10 gauge wire from that solenoid's supply, if I wanted to power the freezer all of the time, or its output, if I wanted to power the freezer only when the helm supply is active. Then wire the 10 gauge to a 15 amp inline fuse and use 14 gauge wire from there to the freezer.


The Danfoss compressor on that freezer probably draws about 6 amps and with a 15' round trip run your voltage drop will be about 2%. You could just run 10 gauge all of the way from the solenoid to the freezer, but better practice is to protect the wire with its own fuse, like I describe above.


And FWIW if I were doing this on my 34T, I would run the wires to the summer kitchen underneath the seats, covered with raceway as described in the PP.


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Old 11-04-2016, 04:45 PM   #5
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On our flybridge we use a Dometic https://www.amazon.com/Dometic-CF-08...0030G7YIC?th=1 it will use either 12v or 120Vac
It keeps ice cream hard... we used the same model on or OA for several years with no problem... They do come in several sizes

This is never mind I didn't see you didn't have an inverter on the boat
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Old 11-04-2016, 05:13 PM   #6
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Hey guys thanks for your help.

Good catch on the 12/24 V David, I honestly haven't picked out the exact unit yet and I didn't pay too much attention when I copied the link. I'll go with a DC/AC unit when I actually make the choice. Sorry for the confusion.

There is a breaker for the summer kitchen AC outlet on the panel in the main salon, so I'm pretty covered there.

Under the FB helm there is a pair of heavy duty posts with large cables (like 0 or 00) running to them one neg and one positive. Most of the DC accouterments for the upper helm (electronics etc) pull off of two buss bars attached to those cables. I didn't see a solenoid there, but I wasn't looking for one, so it's probably the same set up as your 34T. They seem to be powered all the time, or at least I haven't been able to figure out how to shut them down, even when I turn off the DC breakers on the main panel that read "Flybridge Main." I've never checked them with the DC Main breaker off. My plan was to pull wires off of them.

Thanks for the advice on the fuse panel, I totally see what you are saying. I guess I need to trace those big cables and find out exactly where they go, they must be have a breaker in them somewhere, right?

So let me make sure I have this right: you're suggesting that instead of putting the fuse panel under the summer kitchen I should run a fuse panel off of the solenoid/posts under the helm, then run wire back from the panel to the summer kitchen? Would the "source" than become the big posts under the helm?

As far as running the wire goes, I get putting the wire in loom secured under the benches, that part is easy. The tough part is getting from the helm pod to the bench on the starboard side as they don't abut each other. I think I could cut a hole inside the bench through the liner inside and get to the inside of the helm pod that way, but there's a big turn there and it's going to be tough to reach it through.
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Old 11-04-2016, 05:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ka_sea_ta View Post
On our flybridge we use a Dometic https://www.amazon.com/Dometic-CF-08...0030G7YIC?th=1 it will use either 12v or 120Vac
It keeps ice cream hard... we used the same model on or OA for several years with no problem... They do come in several sizes

This is never mind I didn't see you didn't have an inverter on the boat
Yes, very similar to what I'm looking at, ours will just be built in. I'm also considering adding some sort of insulating foam panel to the underside of the Summer Kitchen lid that squeezes against the top of the fridge when the lid is closed. It would be super easy and may make the fridge more efficent as they must lose some cool air through those sliding lids.
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Old 11-04-2016, 08:09 PM   #8
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"So let me make sure I have this right: you're suggesting that instead of putting the fuse panel under the summer kitchen I should run a fuse panel off of the solenoid/posts under the helm, then run wire back from the panel to the summer kitchen? Would the "source" than become the big posts under the helm?"


Yes. But it does not need to be a fuse panel. It can just simply be an inline fuse.


I can't help you much with the routing as I don't know the flybridge layout of the 400. On the 34T it can easily be done as the bench seats are continuous all the way back to where the summer kitchen is.


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Old 11-06-2016, 01:07 PM   #9
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I did a little research on Yachtworld and saw some pics of the fly bridge layout with the summer kitchen The kitchen is just in back of the port side aft seats. As you described, there is not a continuous path through the fore and aft seats to the kitchen.


But there is a speaker mounted just in front of the port side forward seat and that indicates that there is a hollow space behind the speaker. I will bet that if you drill a decent size hole in the bottom of the kitchen facing the port side you will be able to work a snake up to and underneath the helm. You will have to drill another hole or put in a Beckson plate underneath and to the port side of the helm to be able to reach inside to pull out the snake, but it looks doable.


If you are real lucky, there might already be a pull string in place to do this.


David
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