Weight/tonnage

[Oceania]

My survey report said my boat is 13000 lbs. it's a 1986 Oceania 35 with a single Perkins 135. It was never an issue until my Maxwell/Nilsson windlass gave up the ghost. The Lewmar people said that their Pro Series 1000 would do it if it was a light displacement 35, I would need the H2 if it was a heavy displacement. The H2 is double the cost. I think the actual weight should be around 20,000 lbs. . Anyone have a better idea. What about windlass recommendations?

 

[sunchaser]

My survey report said my boat is 13000 lbs. it's a 1986 Oceania 35 with a single Perkins 135. It was never an issue until my Maxwell/Nilsson windlass gave up the ghost. The Lewmar people said that their Pro Series 1000 would do it if it was a light displacement 35, I would need the H2 if it was a heavy displacement. The H2 is double the cost. I think the actual weight should be around 20,000 lbs. . Anyone have a better idea. What about windlass recommendations?

I'd recommend you stick with the lifting capacity that is currently on vessel. Have you shopped around? What is the current model, anchor size and rode type?

 

[Benthic2]

abandon hope all ye who enter here........

 

[Comodave]

How much does your ground tackle weigh?

 

[wpc691]

How much does your ground tackle weigh?

Exactly...you’re lifting the ground tackle, not the boat. What depth do you anchor in? 100 ft of chain plus the anchor hanging straight down is a lot of weight; 12 ft, not so much.

 

[tbtapper]

I have a CT 35 sundeck and a displacement of 13k for your boat sure seems way low. My brochure indicated 19.8k empty, add water/fuel and I’m at 24k.
Anyway as noted by others boat displacement does not really matter, it’s the ground tackle that counts.
I installed a Lewmar Pro1000 for my boat as I’m using a 35# Delta and 50’ of G4 5/16 chain. Pro1000 has no problem with that set up.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Re: Post #3. Agreed...

 

[HeadMistress]

Tonnage has nothing to do with the weight of your boat. It is a measure of how much wine a vessel can carry.

The word "tun" was originally a size of a cask used to ship wine from
Spain & Portugal to England. In 1347 a tax of 3 shillings per tun was
imposed and this was called "tonnage." A ship's size became known by the
number of casks it could carry, and the word tonnage started being used
to describe a ship's size.

It was found that if you took the length x the breadth x the depth of
the hold under the deck and divided by 100 it was close to the number of
casks. That is where we get the "Measurement ton" of 100 cubic feet per
ton.


There are several kinds of tonnage: The first two are used by the tax
collector. The next two are used by designers. The fifth and sixth are
used by freight salesmen and canal operators and the last one is used by
the USCG for documenting boats.


(There's more if you're interested...)



--Peggie

 

[Lou_tribal]

Tonnage has nothing to do with the weight of your boat. It is a measure of how much wine a vessel can carry.

The word "tun" was originally a size of a cask used to ship wine from
Spain & Portugal to England. In 1347 a tax of 3 shillings per tun was
imposed and this was called "tonnage." A ship's size became known by the
number of casks it could carry, and the word tonnage started being used
to describe a ship's size.

It was found that if you took the length x the breadth x the depth of
the hold under the deck and divided by 100 it was close to the number of
casks. That is where we get the "Measurement ton" of 100 cubic feet per
ton.


There are several kinds of tonnage: The first two are used by the tax
collector. The next two are used by designers. The fifth and sixth are
used by freight salesmen and canal operators and the last one is used by
the USCG for documenting boats.


(There's more if you're interested...)



--Peggie

Mr RTF can testimony that my boat has a very very high tonnage lol

L.

 

[Oceania]

Very interesting replies. So, if you are not supposed to haul your boat up to the anchor with your windlass and you are supposed to snub your rode when anchored, then your tonnage should only influence rode size and grade, right? My ground tackle is a 20 kg. Bruce claw and 150 ft. Of 5/16 BBB chain. I rarely anchor in depths beyond 20 ft unless there is any emergency. For 20 ft. I lay out about 60 to 70 feet of chain.

 

[sunchaser]

Very interesting replies. So, if you are not supposed to haul your boat up to the anchor with your windlass and you are supposed to snub your rode when anchored, then your tonnage should only influence rode size and grade, right:

Not necessarily. In an imperfect anchorage the wind blows and current runs. Sometimes hard, like a gale (or worse) when you are anchored and readying for retrieval. Under these potential real world scenarios, keeping the boat pointed and powering perfectly into the wind and current with no environmental load on the windlass is nigh impossible for the Admiral with me on the foredeck.

The total load the windlass then sees may well be above the weight of the anchor, rode and "break loose" from the bottom forces. How much more load you size you windlass for is called safety factor and is up to you and your wallet. I like windlass sizing to minimally approximate 75% of the WLL of your well sized chain. Imperfect - of course. Debatable - absolutely. Safe - yes.

 

[psneeld]

Not necessarily. In an imperfect anchorage the wind blows and current runs. Sometimes hard, like a gale (or worse) when you are anchored and readying for retrieval. Under these potential real world scenarios, keeping the boat pointed and powering perfectly into the wind and current with no environmental load on the windlass is nigh impossible for the Admiral with me on the foredeck.

The total load the windlass then sees may well be above the weight of the anchor, rode and "break loose" from the bottom forces. How much more load you size you windlass for is called safety factor and is up to you and your wallet. I like windlass sizing to minimally approximate 75% of the WLL of your well sized chain. Imperfect - of course. Debatable - absolutely. Safe - yes.

Those that keep posting how fragile windlasses are need to do 2 things....I am guessing buy better ones ( if still made), and take one apart that has been abused (like mine) and see how little damage there is to the working parts.

Heck mine is almost pulling through the solid teak pulpit and shows little sign of chipped or broken or even worn gears (one key is a lityle loose) and it is a 1988 that has only had a break in anchoring for about 4 years.

I am not advocating abuse, but as pointed out, sometimes pulling anchor is less than idyllic.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Re: Post #9...

 

[HeadMistress]

then your tonnage should only influence rode size and grade, right?


Tonnage has nothing to do with it..it's your boat's WEIGHT that determines anchor rode size and grade. See post #8


--Peggie

 

[Oceania]

Thanks Peggie, but I guess you want me to distinguish weight from the term tonnage vis your explanation. I got it! [emoji926]

 

[Oceania]

I've ordered a Lewmar Pro Series 1000 with a 5/16" gypsy for a BBB chain . That should do it.

 

[Bensjoy]

Windlass Issue

I had a similar boat and windlass as you and did not have any problems.. I always motored up to the anchor while the windlass.was taking up the rope/chain with out a load. . The windlass is designed to lift the anchor when the bow is on top of it. I've seen boaters let the windlass pull the boat up to the amchor which it is not designed to do.
I would guess your dry weight is about 9 tons.

 

[foreverunderway]

Every windlass instruction sheet I have ever read said not to use the windlass to pull the boat to the anchor. They recommend you power up on the anchor and use the engine to power it out of the bottom. If you have not been doing this, then perhaps this is why you need a new windlass.
Therefore, the weight of your boat should have less to do with the size of your windlass than the weight of your ground tackle, as those above have said. However, I think one should have enough power in your windlass to power up the entire amount of chain and your heaviest anchor, should it ever be necessary, if for instance, if your anchor were to go down unintentionally, in deep water while you are underway. It happens!

 

[Simi 60]

No serious cruiser ever complains about too much windlass or too much anchor.

We have never had an issue with ours even in extreme conditions but I would increase everything in size in a heartbeat if I was looking at replacing everything.

Add: we mostly pull/pulse our 65 tonnes up to the anchor with the windlass as it keeps us heading to the anchor and not overshooting it.
Never had the overload breakers trip yet and cones/clutch are set to slip before overload.

 

[psneeld]

No serious cruiser ever complains about too much windlass or too much anchor.

We have never had an issue with ours even in extreme conditions but I would increase everything in size in a heartbeat if I was looking at replacing everything.

Add: we mostly pull/pulse our 65 tonnes up to the anchor with the windlass as it keeps us heading to the anchor and not overshooting it.
Never had the overload breakers trip yet and cones/clutch are set to slip before overload.

Agreed...I don't expect my windlass to pull me forward in a gale and huge chop...but in most anchoring conditions it does it fine.... with the pull a bit and let the catenary do most of the work, then pull some more.

I have had my windlass apart several times, it is a 1988 Vetus and the gears look in great shape.

I feel sorry for those that have to baby their windlass as it just makes life that little bit harder.

 

[rgano]

Inherited a McMurry windlass with a bent shaft on my 1972 Grand Banks. Got that straightened, learned about snubbers (apparently the PO never did), and NEVER dragged boat to anchor for the next 29 years. We put her in gear for a few seconds and just kept the slack out of the all-chain rode actually hoping to slightly override the anchor for easy breakout. If the anchor looked to be well buried, judged by the strain as the chain went "up and down," the short snubber came out for breaking the thing free.

 

[Bigsfish]

I purchase the largest anchor and rode that I think I may ever need, ten go one size up. I sleep sound. My windless is purchased the same, one size bigger than the charts say I need and never use the windless to pull the boat (almost never). Safety first.

 

[Oceania]

Great advice all! Experience is a wonderful teacher!

 

[Simi 60]

For us, due to our large ducted propeller, just putting ours in gear has us lurching forward far quicker than the windlass can pull chain in.

End result is chain rubbing on paint and the vessel drifting off to one side or the other putting extra load on roller cheeks, stripping galv from chain and putting extra load on the windlass, especially with current.

Far less drama, far more control just letting the windlass do the work.

 

[psneeld]

The trick as with all pieces of machinery, is having a feel for its limits that is still reasonable but maybe not within manufacturers guidelinex written for the totally unmechanically inclined.

Sort of like driving with a clutch.....

 

[GB3295]

Interesting reading, however I wonder if some of you do not start your engine or use your engine to creep up to your anchor? So do some of you haul the anchor first and then start your engines......? To be safe I would prefer to have my engine running and check out my departure scenario before hauling anchor.

 

[rgano]

I am trying to think of a scenario in which I would one would want to pull to the anchor (possible ending up dragging) with the winch before starting the main engine(s), but for the life of me, I cannot. If, as with many boats, the windlass is run from the starting bank, the idea gets stranger and stranger.

 

[GB3295]

Under normal circumstances (say after an afternoon of swimming etc.) I would never think of not having my engine running before hauling anchor, as hauling anchor means you are leaving either for your homeport/marina or sailing to another anchor spot. Much less would I haul anchor on the windlass alone without having my engine on if there was an unforeseen reason to haul anchor and depart.........

 

[psneeld]

I start the engine and when necessary use it to head for the anchor....not sure anyone inferred pulling the anchor without the engine running.

Like untying the boat from the dock without starting the engine....not a common occurrence.

But not using the engine while pulling the anchor in benign conditions isn't uncommon either. Pull some chain and the boat moves forward under the weight of the chain...once the momentum is started...there is little or no strain on the windlass.

 

[markpierce]

Have the engine on in-idle but let the windlass retract the anchor. If the engine is engaged, it will likely overrun the chain rode and scar the hull. Besides, I prefer being on the bow to clean off any vegetation and mud while recovering rode and anchor.