Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 10-08-2012, 11:27 AM   #1
Veteran Member
 
waterfront's Avatar
 
City: Fairhope
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Waterfront
Vessel Model: Chein Hwa Present Sundeck 35
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 53
Question Repacking the shaft troubles

I just repacked the shaft on my trawler. It is a Present 35 with a Perkins 6-354 and a 1 1/2 shaft. The P O had left packing aboard that was 1/2 inch. When I pulled out the old packing there were only 2 rings. I had three rings cut but can only get 2 rings into the nut even after tightening it down and then backing it off. Has anyone else had this problem or have I put the wrong size in ?
__________________
Advertisement

waterfront is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 11:51 AM   #2
Guru
 
skipperdude's Avatar
 
City: Whittier AK
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Apache II
Vessel Model: 1974 Donald Jones
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,147
Could there still be a few rings in there?
How did you remove the old rings?

I have seen them really packed in there.
Then if they get hot and compressed. For some reason they can really turn into rocks.

SD
__________________

__________________
If you can't repair it maybe it shouldn't be on the boat
skipperdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 11:53 AM   #3
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,817
The original shaft in my boat was 1 1/4" and the packing was 1 piece that wrapped twice around the shaft. Never had a problem with it. When I repowered and went to a 1 1/2" shaft, I switched to a dripless seal.

Ted
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 12:58 PM   #4
Veteran Member
 
waterfront's Avatar
 
City: Fairhope
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Waterfront
Vessel Model: Chein Hwa Present Sundeck 35
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 53
I actually used lond deck screws and vice grips to pull the old packing. If there was an additional ring left in the nut it sure felt like metal to me. I can adjust the nut down to no drip with the two rings and then back of to get drips and no heat on the box. I have always been able to use three rings on all the other boats that I have owned, but they were all sailboats with smaller shafts and packing. Maybe I should a. worry, b. not worry,or c.try a smaller size packing.
waterfront is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 01:10 PM   #5
Guru
 
skipperdude's Avatar
 
City: Whittier AK
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Apache II
Vessel Model: 1974 Donald Jones
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,147
When the packing went in it should go easy Just snug

In other words it should fit right in and be expanded by tightening.

If it works I.E. No heat and drips when running. I would say you are good to go.

I have heard of people just adding a new ring once in a while when she starts dripping bad. Not something I would do. It is really an easy job to just replace all of it.
1/2 inch. Huh I can't recall what size I used.

I work on to many boats.

Sd
__________________
If you can't repair it maybe it shouldn't be on the boat
skipperdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 01:11 PM   #6
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,817
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterfront View Post
I actually used lond deck screws and vice grips to pull the old packing. If there was an additional ring left in the nut it sure felt like metal to me. I can adjust the nut down to no drip with the two rings and then back of to get drips and no heat on the box. I have always been able to use three rings on all the other boats that I have owned, but they were all sailboats with smaller shafts and packing. Maybe I should a. worry, b. not worry,or c.try a smaller size packing.
I go with B - not worry. If you can adjust it to where it drips properly without heat, the worst that going to happen is that it starts dripping a little more. It's not like the packing is going to come out if the jam nut is cinched up tight.

You do have good bilge pumps don't you.

Ted
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 03:21 PM   #7
Veteran Member
 
waterfront's Avatar
 
City: Fairhope
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Waterfront
Vessel Model: Chein Hwa Present Sundeck 35
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 53
Sounds like I am making a mountain out of a mole-hill so mabe the best thing to do is just wait and see. By the way, the bilge pumps are new.
waterfront is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 05:07 PM   #8
Guru
 
skipperdude's Avatar
 
City: Whittier AK
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Apache II
Vessel Model: 1974 Donald Jones
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,147
I think you are right. The main thing is you will keep an eye on it.

And that is a good thing.

Some times you just need to tinker, adjust, tweek,

Boats sometimes need so much attention they are like a high maintenance wife.

Gotta love em.
Sd
__________________
If you can't repair it maybe it shouldn't be on the boat
skipperdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 06:46 PM   #9
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,913
the diameter of the packing isn't about how many rings but the space between the shaft and the gland.....never have seen one that you couldn't put at least 5 rings to start....I wouldn't feel comfortable with less than 4 to start with.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 12:33 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Adelaide's Avatar
 
City: La Conner, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 1983 Tung Hwa Clipper
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 365
Th PO left the hook from this set......

4 Piece Pick and Hook Set


It makes pulling the old packing breeze. Using a screw, or anything else just seems overkill. I used 4 rings, staggered, on each of mine (albeit a different boat). Good luck.
Adelaide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 06:33 AM   #11
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelaide View Post
Th PO left the hook from this set......

4 Piece Pick and Hook Set


It makes pulling the old packing breeze. Using a screw, or anything else just seems overkill. I used 4 rings, staggered, on each of mine (albeit a different boat). Good luck.
You'll bend or break those tools and just frustrate yourself if the packing is a little old and packed tightly. Maybe teflon would be a little less of a problem...haven't worked with all the brands yet.

I broke 2 "professional" spring packing removal tools on my last boat and that's when I discovered the deck screw and vice grip game...works like a champ and cheap/free.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 07:00 AM   #12
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
These are the correct tools. They can be purchased separately or with a kit that includes longer and stronger versions of the O-ring tools you linked.

They have flexible shafts and the screw is very strong and sharp at the tip. They are not unbreakable, if you get one stuck in a lantern ring or a cooling water inlet hole and pull too hard the hardened tip will break but these things have billions of man-years of use successfully pulling hardened packing from steam valves and feed pumps and that is way more difficult than pulling packing from a little shaft packing gland.

Google "packing hooks"
Attached Images
 
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 07:23 AM   #13
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,817
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
the diameter of the packing isn't about how many rings but the space between the shaft and the gland.....never have seen one that you couldn't put at least 5 rings to start....I wouldn't feel comfortable with less than 4 to start with.
What do you think is going to happen with less than 4? It's not like the packing is going to come out.

Ted
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 07:30 AM   #14
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,668
Quote:
Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
What do you think is going to happen with less than 4? It's not like the packing is going to come out.

Ted
Leaving hard packing in place can score your shaft over time. I've seen countless worn pump shafts due to poor packing practices. Mind you pump shafts are turning usually 1800 or 3600 RPM.

Even the best millwrights resort to screws and needle nose vice grips and other implements of destruction when the packing gets hard.
Northern Spy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 07:36 AM   #15
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,913
Quote:
Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
What do you think is going to happen with less than 4? It's not like the packing is going to come out.

Ted
I just think most glands are designed for way more than 2-3 rings so without at least 4....just not sure they will squeeze up properly....

I would be very interested to see the depth...my gland held 7 rings to full out adjustment. If the gland in question fully bottomed out...one ring may work. And it depends on the packing I would think...once some starts to get a little harder you may just not have the right combo of packing mass and the ability to stop the flow by squeezing more...can't really say anything 100 percent...just a feeling.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 07:44 AM   #16
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,668
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
I just think most glands are designed for way more than 2-3 rings so without at least 4....just not sure they will squeeze up properly....

I would be very interested to see the depth...my gland held 7 rings to full out adjustment. If the gland in question fully bottomed out...one ring may work. And it depends on the packing I would think...once some starts to get a little harder you may just not have the right combo of packing mass and the ability to stop the flow by squeezing more...can't really say anything 100 percent...just a feeling.
Agreed. The hard packing isn't doing anything for you. Once packing is compressed, it doesn't uncompress (?). Might as well have a bushing in there.

Very remote possibility that there is a lantern ring in there? Can't see why, but hey, who knows?
Northern Spy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 08:03 AM   #17
Guru
 
Forkliftt's Avatar
 
City: Biloxi Mississippi
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Patricia Louise II
Vessel Model: 1983 42' Present Sundeck
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,433
What is a lantern ring?
Forkliftt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 10:29 AM   #18
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forkliftt View Post
What is a lantern ring?
One of these ...
Attached Images
 
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 10:39 AM   #19
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Spy View Post
Leaving hard packing in place can score your shaft over time. I've seen countless worn pump shafts due to poor packing practices. Mind you pump shafts are turning usually 1800 or 3600 RPM.

Even the best millwrights resort to screws and needle nose vice grips and other implements of destruction when the packing gets hard.
My comment wasn't about not replacing the packing, it was about the number of rings.

FWIW, I replace my rudder packing every year and did the shaft packing every year until I went to a dripless. The boat has a 13' prop shaft with a carrier bearing. The bearing failed one year costing me almost $3K between 2 lost charters and the haulout. So every year I pull the rudder, pull the shaft, clean the bilge, replace the stern bilge pump (only one that ever runs), replace the bearing, replace the packing, and reassemble. Whole process takes about 6 hours and <$150 in parts. Great piece of mind and it's really easy to dig the old packing out when it's only a year old. I know that replacing the packing is really excessive, but a couple bucks for the rope and 15 minutes of work is a no brainer to me.

Ted
__________________

O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012