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Old 07-10-2015, 09:29 PM   #21
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That's okay. A lot of people believe that because brands like Grand Banks and Island Gypsy were built in Asia they were built in Taiwan. Easy to believe since so many brands were turned out in Taiwan from many family-owned boatyards that were there at the time.

But the Grand Banks and Island Gypsy lines of boats both originated in Hong Kong. Kong & Halverson (the "Kong" first worked at American Marine and was involved in the creation of the Grand Banks line before leaving and teaming up with Halverson) created the Island Gypsy line of diesel cruisers.

American Marine closed their Hong Kong yard in the early 70s and moved all production to Singapore. I'm not sure what Kong & Halverson did in terms of yard location.
Interesting.
Do you have any thoughts on the Marine Traders? late 70s early to late 80s?
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Old 07-10-2015, 09:43 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Cbrooks1976 View Post
I think at this point I'm going to just assume the boat has leaky windows and start there, if I end up with a Marine Trader. If I fix/replace the windows and didn't need to, at least I'll have new windows

I'm a little nervous about the fuel tanks.....actually very nervous.
Has anyone done theirs?
If I'm forced to replace the tank I have a guy who'll make a custom tank for me. If I could carry more fuel on bard that would be a silver lining, and take some of the sting out of the repair.

The wire issue is the least challenging for me.
I have a background in chasing wires and crawling through tight spaces.
Don't particularly want to, but it's doable.

I guess if I wanted a maintenance free boat I should have stuck with my kayak
It's a little perplexing how folks who own other brand boats bad mouth Marine Trader while MT owners don't really reflect their criticism. I'm starting to think it's the boat equivalent of Chevy vs Ford.

If anyone here has taken on any of the about jobs feel free to expound on your experience.
And if any MT owners want to show off their boats area Tampa Bay, beers on me
Just a little free advice that I feel qualified to give having owned a Marine Trader 36 for 3 1/2 years now. When we bought the boat it had 14 water leaks. It did not take to long to track them down and fix them (some easier than others). I replaced all plumbing and all 120 volt wiring and am still working on the 12 volt wiring. We have done more upgrades than I could probably remember at this hour. We bought the boat for $20K and have put another $30K plus at least a thousand hours of labor into it. She is a good boat now but set for 8 years before we got her so she had a lot of deffered maintenance.

If you buy an old boat for $20K - $40K plan on another 20K - 40K to bring her back to life and truly make her your own. If you are good with your hands and enjoy working on an old boat it can be very rewarding. If you don't work with your hands an old boat can be a money pit and your worst nightmare.

I enjoy working on the boat and realize we have more in her than we could sell her for, but we don't care, it is our home and we love it.

As far as the reputation of Marine Traders, it is well deserved. I have found so many things that I just shake my head at. For example the flybidge drain is directly over the shore power outlet. It could not have been planned any worse. The window instalation looks like an eight grader designed it. That beening said all things can be fixed. We have made vast improvements on our boat. Don't get me wrong MTs are decent boats if they have been cared for and upgraded, but go in with your eyes wide open and take someone who has owned one for awhile with you to look at it.

I have a friend in Fort Meyers that has a MT 44 with a single 120 Lehman for sale. PM me if you want his contact info.
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Old 07-10-2015, 10:47 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Cbrooks1976 View Post
Interesting.
Do you have any thoughts on the Marine Traders? late 70s early to late 80s?
Sorry, but what I know about Marine Traders wouldn't cover the head of a pin and I don't want to simply pass on what I've heard along the way from people whose credibility is unknown to me about what's good and bad about these boats.

There are people on this forum who own or have had experience with Marine Traders and I'm sure at least some of them will speak up here about their experiences.

What I can offer is this: There is a pretty good Passagemaker article on "Taiwanese Trawlers," the generic name used for the large number of cruisers produced in Taiwan during the 70s and 80s. These include makes like CHB, Puget Trawler, Marine Trader, Roughwater, Albin etc. The article talks about the good and bad aspects of these boats. http://www.baris.net/boats/lf3/pdf/a...e_trawlers.pdf

Perhaps this will serve as at least one data point as you learn more about this brand.
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Old 07-10-2015, 11:36 PM   #24
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Just a little free advice that I feel qualified to give having owned a Marine Trader 36 for 3 1/2 years now. When we bought the boat it had 14 water leaks. It did not take to long to track them down and fix them (some easier than others). I replaced all plumbing and all 120 volt wiring and am still working on the 12 volt wiring. We have done more upgrades than I could probably remember at this hour. We bought the boat for $20K and have put another $30K plus at least a thousand hours of labor into it. She is a good boat now but set for 8 years before we got her so she had a lot of deffered maintenance.

If you buy an old boat for $20K - $40K plan on another 20K - 40K to bring her back to life and truly make her your own. If you are good with your hands and enjoy working on an old boat it can be very rewarding. If you don't work with your hands an old boat can be a money pit and your worst nightmare.

I enjoy working on the boat and realize we have more in her than we could sell her for, but we don't care, it is our home and we love it.

As far as the reputation of Marine Traders, it is well deserved. I have found so many things that I just shake my head at. For example the flybidge drain is directly over the shore power outlet. It could not have been planned any worse. The window instalation looks like an eight grader designed it. That beening said all things can be fixed. We have made vast improvements on our boat. Don't get me wrong MTs are decent boats if they have been cared for and upgraded, but go in with your eyes wide open and take someone who has owned one for awhile with you to look at it.

I have a friend in Fort Meyers that has a MT 44 with a single 120 Lehman for sale. PM me if you want his contact info.
Thanks for the info, it was worth a lot more than free.
Maybe I should find a boat that's been worked over already, the math is starting to break down a little bit. I restored old cars and built motorcycles for several years, so doing the work myself is possible with some guidance.
I wouldn't presume to be an expert, but the skills should cross over well.
The issue is a $20k boat + another $20-40K puts me in range of more choices.

And I would like to learn more about your buddy's boat. It might be a little early but if he's showing it I'd like to come down and have a look. I did know they made a single engine 44. 10" more than I have been looking at and I bet the rage is pretty good.
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Old 07-11-2015, 07:14 AM   #25
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cbrooks1976

I just sent you a pm.
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Old 07-11-2015, 10:15 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbrooks1976 View Post
I think at this point I'm going to just assume the boat has leaky windows and start there, if I end up with a Marine Trader. If I fix/replace the windows and didn't need to, at least I'll have new windows

I'm a little nervous about the fuel tanks.....actually very nervous.
Has anyone done theirs?
If I'm forced to replace the tank I have a guy who'll make a custom tank for me. If I could carry more fuel on bard that would be a silver lining, and take some of the sting out of the repair.

The wire issue is the least challenging for me.
I have a background in chasing wires and crawling through tight spaces.
Don't particularly want to, but it's doable.

I guess if I wanted a maintenance free boat I should have stuck with my kayak
It's a little perplexing how folks who own other brand boats bad mouth Marine Trader while MT owners don't really reflect their criticism. I'm starting to think it's the boat equivalent of Chevy vs Ford.

If anyone here has taken on any of the about jobs feel free to expound on your experience.
And if any MT owners want to show off their boats area Tampa Bay, beers on me
Although grew up in St petersburg my MT is in Sarasota this October the windows are coming out and I plan to have new ones made
by these guys

Horizontal Sliding, Top Hinged, Medium Duty Fixed, Heavy Duty Fixed Windows, Acrylic Windscreens

I have seen some of there work here at the marina

bring a few beers and we can sit on the back deck and brainstorm
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Old 07-11-2015, 05:13 PM   #27
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The key to the entire process is, can you do all the work on an old TT yourself or do you have to pay someone? It may be simple, the windows leak. Or, more likely, the windows leak and it has rotted out the cheesy old pallet wood they used in the sidewalls and you will have to rebuild the house. Or, that leak in the v-berth might just be a leak, or, it got under the teak decking and rotted the crap wood they used to build the sub deck and you will have to take off all the teak, the top layer of fibreglass, put in new marine ply subdeck, fibreglass over and put down a new deck surface. And the cabin finish teak that got wet will have to be tossed because it has mildew behind.

That is the worst case scenario I found when I was looking for TTs and out of about 10 samples, I would not have bought any of them. There are lots of them around, however and many owners are very happy with them. They vary widely in quality. The interior finish is outstanding and the finish carpentry can't be duplicated by any of the modern builders. They look terrific when the bright work is all done and it's the sort of boat that you have to stop and have just one more look when you put her away for the night.

Reread the cautions from the other posters before mine and don't even look twice if you are not "handy." Doubling (or more) the purchase cost in repairs and replacements is very common in old boats, one of the reasons they should be cheap if they have been neglected but the saving grace is that the money is spend over a few years, not one cheque. You have heard the expression "...boat dollars" (thousands)?

If the one you are looking at has its original teak decks still, be afraid, very afraid.
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Old 07-11-2015, 07:59 PM   #28
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http://www.marinesurvey.com/surveyguide/

A little light reading to give you another data point in your research. David Pascoe is definitely opinionated but then again really, whom amongst us is not.

Look long and hard and don't buy the first boat you see. Good luck.
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Old 07-11-2015, 08:33 PM   #29
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My understanding is Island Gypsy boats were finished in Hong Kong following construction in mainland China. It seemed too early to me, but unreliable memory says I got the info from Mark Halverson.
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Old 07-12-2015, 07:50 PM   #30
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Marine traders

I own a 1981 Marine Trader 41, 42' LOA and identical, inside and out, as far as I can determine to a Defever 41. I have owned it since 2007, and old trawlers are maintenance intensive. You should have a full winter cover or a covered berth.

My advice is to thoroughly examine the deck by looking in the interior for any water marks. Is any paint lifting. Check out the interior lights. Take them apart and see if there has ever been any water ingress. In the lazerete there should be access to the underside of the deck. See if there has every been water ingress. If the deck has been done, ask for pictures of the work or the yard where it was done. Of course if you can feel soft wood or smell wood rot you should simply avoid the boat or at least be prepared for a herculean task.

As for electrical, see if if there are labels on the actual wiring, turn every thing on at once and see if you can blow a fuse, ask for a wiring diagram. These are all very simple things you can do prior to you getting a surveyor.
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Old 09-30-2015, 02:21 PM   #31
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Older boats require more work. I don't care who built it, the marine environment is harsh. If you can (and like to) do your own work, it takes a lot less money than having a yard do it. The price of the boat should reflect how much work is needed. Read "Surveying 101" and crawl all around the boat poking and testing everything, then hire a surveyor and let him know you want to know all the dirt. Between the two of you most of the "faults" will be noted but be aware that there will be things that make you scratch you head and make up new curses. They are boats, after all.
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Old 10-15-2015, 06:35 AM   #32
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We have been looking for Defever 44s and island gypsy boats 36, 44 and even so called 47s. These boats all come from the early to mid 80s. They all vary in faults and issues and we try and remember these boats are all now 30 odd years old.

Find a good surveyor and stick with them, be there when they do the survey and you learn so much.

Some basics we work on
~ if the old steel tanks are still in then be so careful they are a big job to replace. Look for rust signs.
~ if the teak decks on the aft cabin or flybridge are bowed down be vary careful. Do little spring leg pushes against them, if that's ok very light jumps and finally a full on jump if u are sure the deck will handle it. Have someone inside and there should be no ceiling flexing
~ Hull lamination, blisters and worse osmosis can be managed but once you get to hull shaves that's real money
~ run the engines and do a sea trial yourself, look for vibrations at rev ranges which may indicate shaft issues.
~engines you need experts to assist who also understand how the engine marinization works.
~ electrics can be big if u are not confident, get advice

These are the big tickets, if the boat has any of these issues and you still like it negotiate the work into the price and fix it immediately, don't let it get worse.

Finally u can do so much yourself with a mobile phone, a torch, and a round the corner inspection camera.

Oh yes get the surveyor to do all this and more too.
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Old 10-15-2015, 08:15 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Cbrooks1976 View Post
But the boat with the lay out that's the absolute best for me is a Marine Trader 34 Double Cabin.

The problem is I'm not very educated on Marine Trader.

There's an owners group online somewhere. MTOA, I think...

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Old 10-15-2015, 02:53 PM   #34
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Do your own Marine Survey 101
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Old 10-15-2015, 06:28 PM   #35
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Make notes as you inspect. If you see a number of boats you could have trouble distinguishing their respective plus and minus features and making comparisons later on. I made up a multi page form on a clipboard, with space for notes, to take to inspections.
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Old 10-16-2015, 09:22 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by grant.gurney View Post
We have been looking for Defever 44s and island gypsy boats 36, 44 and even a so called 47. These boats all come from the early to mid 80s. They all vary in faults and issues and we try and remember these boats are all now 30 odd years old.

Find a good surveyor and stick with them, be there when they do the survey and you learn so much.

Some basics we work on
~ if the old steel tanks are still in then be so careful they are a big job to replace. Look for rust signs.
~ if the teak decks on the aft cabin or flybridge are bowed down be vary careful. Do little spring leg pushes against them, if that's ok very light jumps and finally a full on jump if u are sure the deck will handle it. Have someone inside and there should be no ceiling flexing
~ Hull lamination, blisters and worse osmosis can be managed but once you get to hull shaves that's real money
~ run the engines and do a sea trial yourself, look for vibrations at rev ranges which may indicate shaft issues.
~engines you need experts to assist who also understand how the engine marinization works.
~ electrics can be big if u are not confident, get advice

These are the big tickets, if the boat has any of these issues and you still like it negotiate the work into the price and fix it immediately, don't let it get worse.

Finally u can do so much yourself with a mobile phone, a torch, and a round the corner inspection camera.

Oh yes get the surveyor to do all this and more too.
One other biggee to keep in mind is has the boat been refurbished, if it has look and see if there have been changes which might affect the structural strength of the vessel. We found a beautiful boat but on closer inspection found that the wonderful renovation had removed structural supports, not very good once we checked the flybridge floor for strength.
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Old 10-27-2015, 08:58 AM   #37
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Island Gypsy 47

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Originally Posted by grant.gurney View Post
One other biggee to keep in mind is has the boat been refurbished, if it has look and see if there have been changes which might affect the structural strength of the vessel. We found a beautiful boat but on closer inspection found that the wonderful renovation had removed structural supports, not very good once we checked the flybridge floor for strength.
Hi Grant, looks like you have dodged a bullet there. I have never heard of renovations affecting structural integrity of the boat but will take it on board.
I also noted your earlier mention regarding the fuel tanks, seems there's no shortage of forum stories about nightmarishly expensive fuel tank replacements that were totally out of the blue, and not picked up on inspection.
By the way what is an Island Gypsy 47 as I thought they only made a 44?
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Old 10-27-2015, 09:29 AM   #38
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Greetings Mr. 01,
Welcome aboard.
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Old 10-28-2015, 06:46 AM   #39
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By the way what is an Island Gypsy 47 as I thought they only made a 44?
Hi Raider01,

You r right there is no such thing as an island gypsy 47. The one I was looking at was in fact a 44 with a lazarette tacked onto the back.
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Old 06-20-2016, 10:54 AM   #40
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So - what did you decide on? I've just started looking and appreciate the outcomes of some of these threads.
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