Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-07-2019, 09:30 PM   #1
Veteran Member
 
City: Honolulu
Country: United States
Vessel Name: LUVYAPOP
Vessel Model: Chung Hwa Stinger custom
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 38
Fresh water tank

If anyone has knowledge in this matter, please help with suggestions. I had a JABSCO 3.0GPH fresh water pump with a small SHURflo 30psi accumulator. Now my understanding of how it's supposed to work is once the accumulator if full the pump shuts off. Pump turns on at system demand, correct? Well, it got to where the pump would not shutoff. I was told at West Marine the accumulator probably failed and to just remove it, don't need it. I bought a new JABSCO 4.0GPH water pump, removed the accumulator from the equation and the pump still runs continuously. The guy told me the pump shouldn't keep running. I have two wires, ground and power. Pump runs fine, but doesn't stop running. Do you all feel/think/know if I SHOULD have an accumulator back in the system? Thanks in advance.
__________________
Advertisement

LUVYAPOP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2019, 09:41 PM   #2
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 5,429
The accumulator is there to stop the pump from running as frequently. It builds up water and when the pump hits the PSI that it is set to go off at the pump will turn off. When you turn on water the accumulator supplies water until the PSI runs down to the pump turn on pressure is hit. So the pump will run longer when water is demanded but it doesn’t turn on as soon the next time water is demanded. So you don’t hear the pump as often and the pump should last longer not having to come on as often. Why your pump runs continuously is another issue. Do you have a leak anywhere? I would leave the accumulator in the system. The running is from a different issue.
__________________

__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you arenít one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2019, 09:44 PM   #3
Veteran Member
 
City: Honolulu
Country: United States
Vessel Name: LUVYAPOP
Vessel Model: Chung Hwa Stinger custom
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 38
No leaks. Checked everywhere. I'm going to buy a new accumulator and install it. Thanks for the input.
LUVYAPOP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2019, 09:47 PM   #4
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 5,429
Well plumbing isnít my strong suit. I would find out why the pump is running before I put the accumulator back in, why add any more complexity to the situation. Once you get the running problem fixed then add the accumulator back in. At least that is what I would do...
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you arenít one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2019, 10:00 PM   #5
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 5,429
I suppose that the valves in the pump could be bad, which would be unusual here since you have had the same problem with 2 pumps but if you have debris in your water tank the debris could be causing the valves to leak and the pump not build up to pressure. Is there a filter in front of the pump? Maybe a way to check would be unhook the plumbing system from the pump and put either a plug on the output side of the pump or a short section of pipe. Then see if the pump turns off. If it doesnít then the pump is bad, maybe full of debris. I had a previous boat with a fiberglass tank that the gel coat broke down and clogged the pump. Replaced the tanks and put a filter in front of the pump after replacing the valves and my problem went away.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you arenít one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2019, 10:06 PM   #6
Veteran Member
 
City: Honolulu
Country: United States
Vessel Name: LUVYAPOP
Vessel Model: Chung Hwa Stinger custom
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 38
Comodave, I do have a filter set up before the pump. Keep in mind I just bought and installed the water pump yesterday. Not to say new stuff doesn't come out of the box bad, but it runs and I get water through the taps. I just drained and flushed my water tank last week. Keep in mind, the spicket on my fresh water tank is about 7" from the bottom of the tank and the tank has three chambers. I can only access the middle chamber so it is impossible to see if there is anything clogging there. I really don't think there is. I have a spare filter, I suppose I can go ahead and change it and try again. Thanks again.
LUVYAPOP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2019, 10:30 PM   #7
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 5,429
Ok, sounds like you have done the right things... I donít have any other ideas, maybe someone more knowledgeable about plumbing will chime in.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you arenít one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2019, 11:17 PM   #8
Guru
 
City: Melbourne, FL
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,415
Quote:
Originally Posted by LUVYAPOP View Post
If anyone has knowledge in this matter, please help with suggestions. I had a JABSCO 3.0GPH fresh water pump with a small SHURflo 30psi accumulator. Now my understanding of how it's supposed to work is once the accumulator if full the pump shuts off. Pump turns on at system demand, correct? Well, it got to where the pump would not shutoff. I was told at West Marine the accumulator probably failed and to just remove it, don't need it. I bought a new JABSCO 4.0GPH water pump, removed the accumulator from the equation and the pump still runs continuously. The guy told me the pump shouldn't keep running. I have two wires, ground and power. Pump runs fine, but doesn't stop running. Do you all feel/think/know if I SHOULD have an accumulator back in the system? Thanks in advance.
The pumps were GPM, not GPH?
It depends on the design of the pump. On an accumulator, you have to have a check valve on most centrifugal pumps. If it is a low output, piston or diaphragm pump, you won't need a check valve. A check valve keeps the pressure in the accumulator when the pump shuts off. Piston and diaphragm pumps already have check valves as part of the pump design.

You have to have something telling the pump to shut off when it gets the accumulator tank charged to 50psi or something near that.

If your "guy" told you to buy a variable flow pump, they don't need an accumulator but run when you need water, pumping more water when you need more water or less to suit demand. They also extract a larger chunk of boat bucks from your wallet, and from what I hear, cause more problems.

Do you have a pump pressure switch? If not, find out where the old one went, or get a new one. Wire up the power into the pressure switch, and then wire the pressure switch to the pump. The pump will turn on when the pressure switch says there is less than 50 PSI (or whatever the low limit - cut-on limit is set) and when the pressure builds up to 50 PSI the high limit switch is closed which turns off the pump.

Some pressure switches are external, wired up outside the pump, and piped into the output of the accumulator so you get the tank pressure. If your pump has a pressure switch, (some do, some don't) then it senses pressure off the output side of the pump. This type won't work if you have the check valve between the pump and the accumulator.

Which Jabsco pump did you buy? Model # please...
stubones99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2019, 11:26 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
RickyD's Avatar
 
City: Long Beach, CA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Aquarius
Vessel Model: Californian 55 CPMY
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by LUVYAPOP View Post
No leaks. Checked everywhere. I'm going to buy a new accumulator and install it. Thanks for the input.
Its possible you need to pump up the pressure in the accumulator with a bicycle pump. Naaa, I don't really know.
__________________
Aquarius 1991 Californian 55 CPMY Long Beach CA
RickyD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2019, 11:30 PM   #10
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 5,429
I think that if the accumulator was not up to pressure it would act just like it was not there. The pump would come on when water is demanded and go off when the system including the accumulator filled up.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you arenít one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 12:17 AM   #11
Guru
 
HopCar's Avatar
 
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,368
Pump doesnít turn off with all outlets closed.

Things that cause pressure pumps to not turn off.

Leak on output side of the pump - you already checked for leaks.

Bad valves in the pump - you installed a new pump and have a filter on the intake side of the pump. Check the filter anyway. Maybe crap is getting through?

Bad pressure switch - you installed a new pump.

Air getting in on the suction side - shouldnít cause continuous running and air would spit out the faucets when open.

Lack of or a bad accumulator tank shouldnít cause continuous running with the faucets closed.

Itís unlikely but my best guess is you missed a leak. It would have to be a fairly large leak as a small leak would just cause the pump to cycle on and off.

Test your old pump. Just put a couple of hoses on it. Run the intake hose to a bucket of water. Put a hose nozzle on the output side. Power it up. It should run a few seconds and stop. Open the hose nozzle and it should start. You might have to open the nozzle and let the air out of the system before it will work right.

What are the model numbers of your old and new pumps?

This is a puzzler. Iím looking forward to hearing what you find.
__________________
Parks Masterson
HopCar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 06:37 AM   #12
TF Site Team
 
Bacchus's Avatar
 
City: Seneca Lake NY
Country: US
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,829
LUVYAPOP...
HopCar cover the subject very well.

Have you tried shutting the pump breaker off and hooking up dockside water? What happens? Flow or no flow with all outlets shut off?
Has a previous owner plumbed in a valve from dockside water to fill fresh water tanks from dockside vs external hose & deck fill? I don't think any mfg would do this but know owners that have (I'll plead the fifth)
Is your head raw or fresh water flush?
One other very puzzling event that had me stumped for awhile on previous boat.
Is your water heater connected to your engine for heating when underway? If so, coolant overflow if closed system.
I had this on a prior raw water cooled gasser and the water heater engine heat coil failed (improper winterization by the yard) and water was back flowing from my fresh water system to engine and out exhaust. In a closed system it would go to the overflow tank.
__________________
Don
2008 MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
Bacchus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 07:47 AM   #13
Guru
 
Maerin's Avatar
 
City: East Coast
Country: USA
Vessel Name: M/V Maerin
Vessel Model: Solo 4303
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 811
  1. One of the prime rules of troubleshooting: Don't overlook the obvious. You ARE connecting the pump per the instructions, and that pump DOES have an integral switch? A model # would tell the tale. If the pump you bought doesn't have a switch, you're chasing your tail.
  2. You should have a strainer, not a filter, on the inlet side of the pump. The filter should be on the pressure side. Some filters will deform and block flow if they're installed on the suction side, it's unusual, but entirely possible. Your problem, however doesn't sound like it's that issue.
  3. I'd get an accumulator into the system. It doesn't have to be one of those very expensive "marine" accumulators, it can be an ST-5 expansion tank that's available at the big box stores. It will be much less costly, and it will be more effective, and last just as long. The expansion tank is tee'd into the pressure side, downstream of the pump. Anywhere in the cold piping system, it does not have to be physically near the pump. That said, I doubt that the accumulator has anything to do with the pump not shutting off.
  4. To eliminate a problem with the system, isolate the pump. Pull a fitting and plug it near the pump, then see if it shuts off. That will eliminate the piping. If the pump continues to run on a closed discharge, your control is either non-functional or non-existent. See #1 & what HopCar suggested to test the pump alone, out of the system.
  5. I'd pull the filter element for testing, then at some point, relocate the filter downstream of the pump where it belongs, and provide a strainer on the inlet side.
__________________
Steve Sipe
Selene 4303 Maerin
http://maerin.net
Maerin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 08:40 PM   #14
Veteran Member
 
City: Honolulu
Country: United States
Vessel Name: LUVYAPOP
Vessel Model: Chung Hwa Stinger custom
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 38
STUBONES99, I installed the JABSCO 82400-0092 Par-Max Plus water pressure sysytem pump 12v, 4 GPM. I took apart the accumulator today and I'm thinking that was the problem bc the bladder inside wasn't seated properly. The edge of the bladder which fits in a groove in one end of the housing was flat. I ordered a new accumulator. Will install and let you know what happens. There's no leaks, even small ones. Water tank is full, but still have to change the water filter upstream from the pump inlet.
LUVYAPOP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 08:47 PM   #15
Veteran Member
 
City: Honolulu
Country: United States
Vessel Name: LUVYAPOP
Vessel Model: Chung Hwa Stinger custom
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 38
Hopcar, the new pump is a JABSCO 82400-0092 Par-Max Plus water pressure system pump 12v, 4 GPM. The old one was a 3 GPM JABSCO. When I get the accumulator in I'm going to install it as per the original setup. Water tank, filter, pump,accumulator. The old one shutoff after the accumulator reached pressure. I remember leaving the pump switch on all night then hear it run after a faucet was opened. Once closed the pump would shutoff automatically.
LUVYAPOP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 08:49 PM   #16
Veteran Member
 
City: Honolulu
Country: United States
Vessel Name: LUVYAPOP
Vessel Model: Chung Hwa Stinger custom
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 38
Maerin, Like I told Hopcar, when I get the new acc in I'm going to install it as per the original set up. Water tank, filter, pump, accumulator. The old one shutoff after the accumulator reached pressure. I remember leaving the pump switch on all night then hear it run after a faucet was opened. Once closed the pump would shutoff automatically. If that doesn't work, I'm going to try some of your suggestions. Mahalos for your input.
LUVYAPOP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 08:55 PM   #17
Veteran Member
 
City: Honolulu
Country: United States
Vessel Name: LUVYAPOP
Vessel Model: Chung Hwa Stinger custom
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 38
BACCHUS, I can run both dock water and use fresh water tank separately. The only common denominator is the water heater, but only at the cold water inlet. I have a compost toilet, which I absolutely love, so no lines there. The water tank is filled through a filler neck. My water heater is heated electronically. Not connected to engine. I don't take the boat out and stay on it long enough to connect to the engine. The old pump shutoff after the accumulator reached pressure. I remember leaving the pump switch on all night then hear it run after a faucet was opened. Once closed the pump would shutoff automatically.
LUVYAPOP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 09:11 PM   #18
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 5,429
Let us know how it works out.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you arenít one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2019, 08:11 AM   #19
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 4,582
Quote:
Originally Posted by LUVYAPOP View Post
STUBONES99, I installed the JABSCO 82400-0092 Par-Max Plus water pressure sysytem pump 12v, 4 GPM. I took apart the accumulator today and I'm thinking that was the problem bc the bladder inside wasn't seated properly. The edge of the bladder which fits in a groove in one end of the housing was flat. I ordered a new accumulator. Will install and let you know what happens. There's no leaks, even small ones. Water tank is full, but still have to change the water filter upstream from the pump inlet.

Note, you may have to adjust the pressure in the accumulator. Jabsco's recommendations can be a bit baffling, but it'll likely come with about 10 psi... whereas you'll want to increase that to right around (just under, IIRC) the pump's cut-in pressure.

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 04:50 PM   #20
Veteran Member
 
City: Honolulu
Country: United States
Vessel Name: LUVYAPOP
Vessel Model: Chung Hwa Stinger custom
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 38
Okay HopCar, Here's what I did. I changed the filter in hopes the water would stop coming out foamy. That's another issue I have, but as far as the pump running, for some reason, when I opened the shutoff valve that isolates the dock water from the fresh water tank, the pump would shut off after accumulator reached psi. Here's a photo of what I'm referring to.
The yellow arrow is my filter which is directly after water tank and before water pump, green arrow. Blue arrow is accumulator, red arrow is T fitting that joins cold water lines from water tank and dock water. Purple arrow is shut off valve on cold water line coming from dock. What I found out is when I had the shutoff valve closed, the pump would NOT shut off. I opened the shut off valve and the pump shut off after accumulator filled. Weird. Anyway, pressure is still weak. Think I should fill accumulator a bit more?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Waterworks.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	165.3 KB
ID:	95372  
__________________

LUVYAPOP is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×