Columbia River Bar

[schrater]

Here in the Taiwanese Makes section, looking specifically for anyone who has taken their CHB-class trawler across the Columbia River Bar. I’m looking to confirm whether these boats with their square sterns, small rudders, and slow speeds are up to the challenge of tumultuous seas.

Requesting first-hand experience!

 

[Portage_Bay]

I've crossed the bar numerous times in many types of boats including square stern, small rudder slow boats. The general concept is the same no matter the boat. Lots of small slow boats cross the bar all the time. Preparation and timing are key to doing it safely.

• Best to cross in light winds and low swell. Watch the weather predictions for wind and swell, generally mornings are lighter winds than afternoons.
• Flood tide is best when crossing inbound. Slack before the flood best outbound. You can cross outbound on the flood but it will be a slow trip.
• AVOID ebb tides and onshore winds. The seas can stack up close together and breakers are common. On some days the change from benign to deadly happens almost instantly as the ebb starts. Especially with an onshore wind.
• Stay away from Clatsop Spit and Peacock Spit. Both can be boat killers.

I have to say this, you may already know it but I've seen too many people get bit in the back side for not understanding this. Tidal current predictions and tide height predictions have very little time relationship to each other on coastal estuaries. For example the ebb current can run well into the rising tide.

Know your coastal speed over ground, it will usually be slower than calm water. Wind and coastal tidal currents will affect your speed. Have a plan for harbors of refuge on your route. Study the charts. Find those with local knowledge. Have good tidal and weather predictions for your route.

If you have no experience off the PNW coast start with Charlie's Charts U.S. Pacific Coast. Then dig in deeper with any good resources you can find for your intended route.

Probably the most important thing you can do beyond getting prepared and timing your crossing correctly is to have patience and flexibility. If you're headed out and you don't like the looks and feel of it before you get to the bar turn around and try again another day. If you're headed in and the bar is kicking up but you're uncomfortable out there, live with it till the bar settles down.

 

[schrater]

Thanks, Portage. All excellent advice. I’ve certainly been doing a lot of studying, and the point about patience is well-taken.

Still looking for that first-hand endorsement though...!

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

As Portage stated: NEVER EVER NEVER EVER NEVER cross the bar on the ebb.

Only slack or flood. I know from experience.

 

[GFC]

I've only been across twice and both times were non-events. Smaller chop on the bar than we'd had coming down the coast. It's all about the timing.


"NEVER EVER NEVER EVER NEVER cross the bar on the ebb."
Tom, how do you really feel about that?

 

[Comodave]

I have never entered the inlet, but have gone down the coast past it. We were 8NM offshore and once we were in it, wished were twice that far offshore. It was impressive.

 

[Crusty Chief]

Its all about the timing.

If you respect the bar it will respect you. Exit on a slack, maybe a bit early if your slow like me, enter a bit earlier. When I say a bit, 30 mins or so.

Enjoy but be wise, the bar is a big deal, dont take it for granted.

 

[markpierce]

Its all about the timing. ...

No doubt!

 

[caltexflanc]

I've crossed the bar numerous times in many types of boats including square stern, small rudder slow boats. The general concept is the same no matter the boat. Lots of small slow boats cross the bar all the time. Preparation and timing are key to doing it safely.

• Best to cross in light winds and low swell. Watch the weather predictions for wind and swell, generally mornings are lighter winds than afternoons.
• Flood tide is best when crossing inbound. Slack before the flood best outbound. You can cross outbound on the flood but it will be a slow trip.
• AVOID ebb tides and onshore winds. The seas can stack up close together and breakers are common. On some days the change from benign to deadly happens almost instantly as the ebb starts. Especially with an onshore wind.
• Stay away from Clatsop Spit and Peacock Spit. Both can be boat killers.

I have to say this, you may already know it but I've seen too many people get bit in the back side for not understanding this. Tidal current predictions and tide height predictions have very little time relationship to each other on coastal estuaries. For example the ebb current can run well into the rising tide.

Know your coastal speed over ground, it will usually be slower than calm water. Wind and coastal tidal currents will affect your speed. Have a plan for harbors of refuge on your route. Study the charts. Find those with local knowledge. Have good tidal and weather predictions for your route.

If you have no experience off the PNW coast start with Charlie's Charts U.S. Pacific Coast. Then dig in deeper with any good resources you can find for your intended route.

Probably the most important thing you can do beyond getting prepared and timing your crossing correctly is to have patience and flexibility. If you're headed out and you don't like the looks and feel of it before you get to the bar turn around and try again another day. If you're headed in and the bar is kicking up but you're uncomfortable out there, live with it till the bar settles down.

This excellent advice, beyond the specific local points of interest, applies to virtually every inlet on either coast.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I have never entered the inlet, but have gone down the coast past it. We were 8NM offshore and once we were in it, wished were twice that far offshore. It was impressive.

The affects of the Columbia River can be felt 60nm out.

 

[schrater]

https://www.opb.org/news/video/graveyard-west-astoria-waterway/

 

[dhays]

Thanks for sharing that video.

 

[Lepke]

The Columbia bar at normal times is not the danger that most of the stories paint. Commercial fishermen cross the bar almost every day. I've crossed bars along the Pacific Coast hundreds of times. The Columbia Bar at least twice a year. If you want the best ride, Slack water at high tide. Period.
The roughness of a bar is caused by the seas and swells coming into a shallow bottom. And can be made much worse by low tide and the ebb tide going in the opposite direction of the wind. That causes much steeper waves and causes the waves to be much closer together.
In the days of sailing ships, and some idiot sailboaters today, ships crossed the bar during the ebb for the additional speed of crossing the bar and getting the current push offshore. But the plan was to start the crossing early in the ebb while the tide was still near flood (and the water deeper over the bar). The continuing ebb current will help the sailing vessel get offshore.

Late in the ebb or at low tide, the bar is at its shallowest. Causing the highest, steepest waves. Some shallow bars can cause bigger boats and ships to touch the bottom. Touching the bottom can cause pitch poling. I know a fisherman that did just that.
Even though I have a big boat, I plan my crossings by adjusting my speed to hit the ideal time. Or when coming down river, stay at Ilwaco until tide conditions are best.

 

[schrater]

Responding in the CHB forum to my original post...

I took my CHB (Ponderosa 35) across the Columbia River Bar and up the Washington coast through the Straits of Juan de Fuca and into the Puget Sound. So yes, it can.

I waited for good weather: swells 4ft/10sec, wind waves 2ft/4sec, and hit the bar midway into flood tide. No problems at all. Swells were out of the West, so it was rolly up the coast, but very do-able. Strayed to about 20miles offshore. No problems handling mild following seas into the Straits.

Happy to say my CHB is right at home in salt water and actually performed surprisingly well given the necessary attention to weather conditions.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Boat sinks on the Bar

https://gcaptain.com/coast-guard-re...139820873&mc_cid=2749a1f1fd&mc_eid=5b70bcca05

 

[Caphenning]

Here in the Taiwanese Makes section, looking specifically for anyone who has taken their CHB-class trawler across the Columbia River Bar. I’m looking to confirm whether these boats with their square sterns, small rudders, and slow speeds are up to the challenge of tumultuous seas.

Requesting first-hand experience!

Any bars you have to pick your conditions to cross. What you want to avoid is conditions where the winds are blowing in, and the tide is coming out at Max ebb. That is when the conditions are most severe. In calm/light air conditions the bar poses no great hazard, just time your passing to take advantage of the tide. In stronger wind conditions you cross when the wind and current coincide and accept the speed hit if it’s going against you.

If the waves are breaking, you really need to know what you’re doing regardless the boat you are in, and if you haven’t been trained at it, it is the wiser choice to wait for the tide and conditions to change regardless the vessel you are in.

 

[bligh]

Wow.
Great advice
Thanks for sharing.

I've crossed the bar numerous times in many types of boats including square stern, small rudder slow boats. The general concept is the same no matter the boat. Lots of small slow boats cross the bar all the time. Preparation and timing are key to doing it safely.

• Best to cross in light winds and low swell. Watch the weather predictions for wind and swell, generally mornings are lighter winds than afternoons.
• Flood tide is best when crossing inbound. Slack before the flood best outbound. You can cross outbound on the flood but it will be a slow trip.
• AVOID ebb tides and onshore winds. The seas can stack up close together and breakers are common. On some days the change from benign to deadly happens almost instantly as the ebb starts. Especially with an onshore wind.
• Stay away from Clatsop Spit and Peacock Spit. Both can be boat killers.

I have to say this, you may already know it but I've seen too many people get bit in the back side for not understanding this. Tidal current predictions and tide height predictions have very little time relationship to each other on coastal estuaries. For example the ebb current can run well into the rising tide.

Know your coastal speed over ground, it will usually be slower than calm water. Wind and coastal tidal currents will affect your speed. Have a plan for harbors of refuge on your route. Study the charts. Find those with local knowledge. Have good tidal and weather predictions for your route.

If you have no experience off the PNW coast start with Charlie's Charts U.S. Pacific Coast. Then dig in deeper with any good resources you can find for your intended route.

Probably the most important thing you can do beyond getting prepared and timing your crossing correctly is to have patience and flexibility. If you're headed out and you don't like the looks and feel of it before you get to the bar turn around and try again another day. If you're headed in and the bar is kicking up but you're uncomfortable out there, live with it till the bar settles down.

 

[bligh]

I have never entered the inlet, but have gone down the coast past it. We were 8NM offshore and once we were in it, wished were twice that far offshore. It was impressive.

Could you elaborate? What were the effects?

 

[GoneFarrell]

I crewed a boat outbound and north July 3. We had good conditions at the bar, but the comments regarding Clatsop and Peacock Spits cannot be overstated.

We went north at 50 fathoms, but came in to 20 fathoms halfway up to get out of crossed seas peaked by the current.

Then all we had to do was dodge crab pots at night!

Be prepared, have a plan B, like do you really want to try to go in at Grays Harbor or is it better to head out to sea, stuff like that.

 

[Comodave]

Could you elaborate? What were the effects?

We were southbound going past the Columbia River out 8 NM and the waves were breaking and we thought they were going to break over into the cockpit. We couldn’t see the action until we were in it since we were traveling with the waves. It was awesome, but not in a good way. It was the only time I have ever thought I was going to die on a boat. I was certain that we were dead and the wave would board us. However the boat took it in stride and it wasn’t an issue. We worked our way out to 11 NM and it was just white knuckle but not going to die. Stopped in at the CG station that night and they said they don’t go inside 15 NM unless it was necessary.

 

[markpierce]

Have made two round trips entering/exiting the Columbia River on cruise ships. All times the waters were calm, and quite passable by small boats. Conclusion: it's all about timing winds and tides.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Then all we had to do was dodge crab pots at night!

Be prepared, have a plan B, like do you really want to try to go in at Grays Harbor or is it better to head out to sea, stuff like that.

Good advice on the Plan B. However, I don't travel up and down the Washington coast at night. Crab pots are not fun...

We were southbound going past the Columbia River out 8 NM and the waves were breaking and we thought they were going to break over into the cockpit. We couldn’t see the action until we were in it since we were traveling with the waves. It was awesome, but not in a good way. It was the only time I have ever thought I was going to die on a boat. I was certain that we were dead and the wave would board us. However the boat took it in stride and it wasn’t an issue. We worked our way out to 11 NM and it was just white knuckle but not going to die. Stopped in at the CG station that night and they said they don’t go inside 15 NM unless it was necessary.

Folks I know that skip the Columbia Bar will travel 60nm off shore to avoid the influence of the river and bar.

 

[schrater]

I appreciate all the comments on this thread. Certainly the recommendations on the importance of timing with tides and weather were valuable.

My original intent however was to talk about the boats. Most of the commenters have been people who made the trip in big bluewater boats, sailboats, or boats that do 10+ knots. While of course there are many similarities in what it takes to plan and execute the voyage safely, there are also unique characteristics of CHB-class trawlers that create their own challenges: the squared stern, the small rudder, the typically dated electronics, the non-watertight doors, and the <10knot max speed.

What I have found is that not many CHB’ers make this trip (transiting between the Puget Sound and the Columbia River). For that I am proud to be able to say I’ve done it, and the boat took it like a champ. I’ll continue to look for opportunities to discuss how these old and limited boats are still none-the-less built for true coastal cruising, even out on the open Pacific.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I appreciate all the comments on this thread. Certainly the recommendations on the importance of timing with tides and weather were valuable.

My original intent however was to talk about the boats. Most of the commenters have been people who made the trip in big bluewater boats, sailboats, or boats that do 10+ knots. While of course there are many similarities in what it takes to plan and execute the voyage safely, there are also unique characteristics of CHB-class trawlers that create their own challenges: the squared stern, the small rudder, the typically dated electronics, the non-watertight doors, and the <10knot max speed.

What I have found is that not many CHB’ers make this trip (transiting between the Puget Sound and the Columbia River). For that I am proud to be able to say I’ve done it, and the boat took it like a champ. I’ll continue to look for opportunities to discuss how these old and limited boats are still none-the-less built for true coastal cruising, even out on the open Pacific.

Congrats on your bar crossing.

I have seen many GB, CHB and other less than 10kts boats do the "Horn." For most it is a 26-32 hour run which means a night time crossing.

 

[Caphenning]

I appreciate all the comments on this thread. Certainly the recommendations on the importance of timing with tides and weather were valuable.

My original intent however was to talk about the boats. Most of the commenters have been people who made the trip in big bluewater boats, sailboats, or boats that do 10+ knots. While of course there are many similarities in what it takes to plan and execute the voyage safely, there are also unique characteristics of CHB-class trawlers that create their own challenges: the squared stern, the small rudder, the typically dated electronics, the non-watertight doors, and the <10knot max speed.

What I have found is that not many CHB’ers make this trip (transiting between the Puget Sound and the Columbia River). For that I am proud to be able to say I’ve done it, and the boat took it like a champ. I’ll continue to look for opportunities to discuss how these old and limited boats are still none-the-less built for true coastal cruising, even out on the open Pacific.

It’s not the boat that stops them, it’s inexperience and the unknown that stops them.

 

[schrater]

Congrats on your bar crossing.



I have seen many GB, CHB and other less than 10kts boats do the "Horn." For most it is a 26-32 hour run which means a night time crossing.

Yep, mine went overnight, actually closer to 40hrs, went 20-25NM offshore.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Yep, mine went overnight, actually closer to 40hrs, went 20-25NM offshore.

How was the crab pot situation that far out?

 

[Portage_Bay]

Yep, mine went overnight, actually closer to 40hrs, went 20-25NM offshore.

How was the crab pot situation that far out?

I've often found the crab pots end at about 100 fm which is on average, a rough average, about 25 nm out. I think the reason they end there can be found in studying the chart soundings. It's relatively flat out to 100 fm, then falls off a cliff on much of the PNW coast. Those numbers are of course simple generalizations but have served me well to stay out of the crab pots at night. So watch the soundings not just the distance off shore.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I've often found the crab pots end at about 100 fm which is on average, a rough average, about 25 nm out. I think the reason they end there can be found in studying the chart soundings. It's relatively flat out to 100 fm, then falls off a cliff on much of the PNW coast. Those numbers are of course simple generalizations but have served me well to stay out of the crab pots at night. So watch the soundings not just the distance off shore.

This is true. However, there are derelict pots that will ruin your run. There is a "so called" pot free zone from Cape Flattery to San Diego. Not sure if I have found it yet.

 

[schrater]

I've often found the crab pots end at about 100 fm which is on average, a rough average, about 25 nm out. I think the reason they end there can be found in studying the chart soundings. It's relatively flat out to 100 fm, then falls off a cliff on much of the PNW coast. Those numbers are of course simple generalizations but have served me well to stay out of the crab pots at night. So watch the soundings not just the distance off shore.

Yep, I found the exact same. Lots of pots 10-15nm out, but didn’t see any more once fathoms dropped past about 100. 20nm out is a pretty safe distance.