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Old 03-28-2013, 02:26 PM   #21
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Al, I'm not a vessel broker or sales agent- I (as alluded to in my signature) am in the marine insurance business- I'm the Vice President of a large West Coast marine insurance brokerage. I'm not here to garner business- otherwise I would be whoring out my company's information for all to see. I'm here because, like you, I am a boater- a liveaboard in my case.

I don't understand why you're so defensive about opinions other than your own- especially from someone in the marine trade. Perhaps you got screwed, or perhaps it's just your opinion- either way, I think you're taking more of a personal affront to this discussion that is warranted.

Agreed that all should do their own research, and seek recommendations. What do you think the broker is doing? He's recommending a professional/list of professionals to survey the boat on behalf of the buyer! Exactly what you advise!

The reality is that there are not many boat/yacht buyers that are "subject matter experts" with regards to the purchase process. Look at how many threads there are online that state "I'm buying a new boat- what do I do next?" or words to that effect. They (prospective buyers) would not know where to go to vet a surveyor without the advice of a broker, lender, insurance type, or other service professional. Some do make it to forums like this one to seek advice, but usually after the purchase is complete.

Perhaps you should take your own advice- "Since you are a broker you should state that when giving advice. Then we'll know what it's worth." I'm in the marine business, and deal with buyers, sellers, surveyors, and marinas every day as my livelihood- so I think my posts and advice carry some weight. What do you do that makes your advice worth more than mine (or anyone else's, for that matter)?

For the record, my planet is fine (its name is reality) and the liquor cabinet is always open!
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Old 03-28-2013, 05:21 PM   #22
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We had a "surveyor" with us for the sea trial. However, not the surveyor who will conduct the final survey.... To clarify, my good friend who was a licensed surveyor

For the record, there is no such thing as a "licensed" marine surveyor in North America
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:06 PM   #23
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Ahoyvey (clever name, that)--- The previous owner of our boat replaced the boat's original three iron tanks with five custom-fabricated new tanks in 1997. We bought the boat in 1998. We were given the receipt for the tank replacement and in 1997 it was just shy of $10,000. I have no idea what a similar job would cost today but everything--- design, materials, and labor--- has gone up since then.

We do not know why the original tanks were replaced but given that the boat was 24 years old at the time my guess is it was due to rust issues with the original tanks.

Should you buy a boat knowing the tanks will need replacing?

That's a call only you can make. It will depend on how much you like the boat, if comparable boats at comparable prices without tank issues are available in your neck of the woods, and the selling price of the boat itself. If the price is dropped enough to cover or partially cover the tank replacement and everything else about the boat suits your requirements and desires to a T, then it may well be a good idea to buy the boat knowing a tank replacement is in your future.

If you have other choices in the the market, or if you have the time to wait for other choices to become available, or if the final price does not sufficiently reflect the fact that the tanks, or some of them, will need replacing, then passing on the boat might be the smarter choice.

But there is no magic go/no-go formula, unfortunately. I'd say go with what your head, heart, and-- most important-- gut tell you after you have the results of the survey(s).
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:06 PM   #24
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I too think tank replacement for $5,000 is light. A friend of mine had his done , for him as he can't do the work, and it was close to 15,000. That was about 10 yrs ago.
It was a larger boat, a 42, but the engine had to be shifted and then reset.

He lost some tankage in the process although he still has more than enough for the cruising he does. He's actually a bit happier since now he actually burns through a tank fill or two in a season so reducing the stale fuel possibilities.

Cutting the old tanks wasn't the problem as they came out in pieces , it was the new ones,. The new tanks had to fit through the doors, be scooted into the engine room necessitating several smaller tanks to replace each of the two larger. That's also why the engine had to be moved.

So be carefull with that $5,000 unless you actually have seen it done and the final bills. It could be but just be carefull.
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:55 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by C lectric View Post
I too think tank replacement for $5,000 is light. A friend of mine had his done , for him as he can't do the work, and it was close to 15,000. That was about 10 yrs ago.
It was a larger boat, a 42, but the engine had to be shifted and then reset.

He lost some tankage in the process although he still has more than enough for the cruising he does. He's actually a bit happier since now he actually burns through a tank fill or two in a season so reducing the stale fuel possibilities.

Cutting the old tanks wasn't the problem as they came out in pieces , it was the new ones,. The new tanks had to fit through the doors, be scooted into the engine room necessitating several smaller tanks to replace each of the two larger. That's also why the engine had to be moved.

So be carefull with that $5,000 unless you actually have seen it done and the final bills. It could be but just be carefull.
The number I have heard is $15,000 too. It might make a difference this vessel is a single engine or the $5,000 is just for one. The vessels I have heard this figure bantered about are in the 40' to 48' range.

If you are going to do it yourself then you might have a shot with enough sweat equity
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:51 AM   #26
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Thank you all for the comments, suggestions, and guidance!!

Our survey went amazing! John bowman (our surveyor) spent 10hours going through each and very square inch of the boat! Using an array of interesting tools and gadgets like mirrors, hydrometer, inferred thermometer, hull tapper, Etc...

The survey provided us with a laundry list of "suggestions" as well he pointed out some issues we already knew the boat had. The in the water portion revealed that the rust present on the fuel tanks was alarming but that the tanks had many more years of service in them. The decks were holding some moisture but that they were in appropriate condition for the boats age and not a concern. The flybridge floor was as John put it "in the same condition he would expect it to be if the boat was new"

Our haul out went well too! All the zincs have been doing their job, no blistering, prop, shaft, rudder and through hull fittings were fine. Bottom paint is needed but we knew this and have arranged a 60 day credit to re-haul and do the bottom paint and I stall a new high tech transducer... Still researching which electronics package but feel like the RAYMARINE will be the one.

We "pulled the trigger" and the boat is now ours! Next, it's all about clean up and wood work! Fine tuning the systems and learning her idiosyncrasies. We will be quite busy (how glorious) getting her into tip top shape! This process has been very informative and rewarding!

Again, thanks for all the love from the members of this forum! I look forward to a long continued presence her and keeping informed as well as sharing my experiences along the way!

Cheers!!
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:30 AM   #27
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^^^ Congrats! Now the real "work" begins

After much research, we also went with Raymarine- it's an excellent system, and does all we want it to do. Simrad came in a close second, as did Garmin. Furuno is much loved, but I simply couldn't justify paying $6200 for 1 14' screen (TZ Touch)

We have the e125 on the flybridge, e127 in the saloon, iPad 1 at the cockpit station when needed, and all work seamlessly together.

Enjoy the new boat!
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:52 AM   #28
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Congratulations, Looking forward to hearing about your experiences as you get to know your new boat.
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Old 03-29-2013, 03:02 PM   #29
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The only real concern thus far, is NOT having a bow thruster. Although for a single screw vessel she seems to Handel very well, in a tight marina I can imagine it could be very helpful especially if its windy. I am researching now what that process entails.
I hear this all the time, but let me assure you that docking a single screw boat without a thruster is not only possible, it can actually be fun. My current boat is 60 feet long, single screw, no thruster, and it's always a good brain exercise planning to leave and arrive. Yes, you have to think about it, but it's all very doable.

Three suggestions I would make:

First, get a few books on powerboat handling. Dag Pike, Stapelton, and the like. Read the docking sections. Maybe even get a block of wood and pretend it's a boat. Remember that the rudder has no effect in reverse. Try moving the block around a tabletop by just pushing forward from the back end. Remember that unlike a car, the back swings but the front doesn't.

Second, remember that you rarely have to go fast. Slow and easy is the key. When I dock and leave, it's very very rare to use anything but idle. And hitting the dock when you are going slow is a heck of a lot better the when you are going fast.

Third, practice. But don't use a dock. Here's my suggestion: one afternoon, when it's quiet and you don't have kids along, practice throwing a life ring overboard and then bringing the boat in a loop and back alongside the ring. With a bit of practice, your partner should be able to use a boat hook to retrieve the ring without stretching at all.

Have fun!

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Old 03-29-2013, 03:17 PM   #30
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Points made by Scott are all good and a must do. However another fact re single is that some times you might have to back down a distance. On that calm day try to back down over at least 100 or so metres. You will soon find out that your prop walk moves the stern in one direction. Now using your rudder find the angle which negates that walk. Remember your bow and as you move astern you may need to give some fwd bite to correct any issues. But it can be done. The other issue is bringing your bow into the wind. I have found that I can control things by backing into an area which gives me some manoeuvre room. Departing my club I have a 50 metre stretch then a 90 degree turn with another 50 meters before I get to an area where I can safely fight my bow into the wind. I have managed it numerous times.
Good luck you have just gained an important family member, treat her with care and kindness. Bill.
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Old 03-29-2013, 07:34 PM   #31
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Congratulations on your new acquisition. I'm sure that, like us, you will find it brings a huge value to your life. We've had our boat 14 years now and still enjoy and use it as much as we did when we first got it. Major big benefit to both our lives.

When maneuvering a single engine boat, particularly in reverse, I have found that intertia is your best friend. By altering the direction of thrust and the proper use of the rudder, you can back a single-engine boat for hundreds of yards in close quarters if necessary with total success. It takes understanding how to use the intertia of the boat in combination with thrust and rudder, but it's not rocket science and once you've begun to master it, it is, as Scott said, a lot of fun.

I first learned to do this in 60' narrowboats in England which have flat bottoms, no keel, very shallow draft, and tremendous propwalk in reverse. When we chartered a single engine GB36 I applied the same principles we'd learned in the narrowboats and lo and behold, they worked exactly the same way. The boat had a bow thruster but we never thought to use it unless we were dealing with docking in strong winds.

So learn the intertia behavior of your boat and how to use it to your advantage and you will do fine without a bow thruster. Although a bow thruster can, indeed, make life a lot easier at times.


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Old 03-31-2013, 01:46 AM   #32
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Howdy ahoyvey...

I've read through all these posts. You sound like a level headed fellow. I recommend you don't let everyone/anyone scare you regarding the items they may be fearful of or have had happen to them.

I can tell you well employ KISS, CYA, and Thrift-Techniques of developing deals, choosing products and thoroughly accomplishing due diligence. BTW, especially in the marine market these days, cash purchase of a classic “Pleasure Boat” usually gives the buyer great leverage... good move ta pay CA$H!

Now don’t get me wrong... some of the cautions, repairs and costs mentioned in this thread could well occur. But, with REAL GOOD survey check-ups (entire boat and all mechanical conditions) and by utilizing professionals in your area to give repair estimates on any items needing repair... you should be in a great position to convince the seller as to how much CASH $$$ you should pay for this boat. IMHO, if the seller will not sell at the fair CASH $$$ price you deem is the boat’s true value, then you should simply walk away!!! In today’s market there are plenty of boats at affordable prices and in darn good condition to choose from. Walking away from an eventual financial dud, to find a financial winner with further searching will make you (and keep you) very happy in the long run!

I look forward to hear of your success for purchase of this or another really good boat.

Also, as I can tell you already know, the estimates for repairs by professionals can usually be reduced considerably via self-work and outside hires. Working on a classic boats are half the fun as you and your craft get into “bonding”.

TF here seems to have plenty of long-term mariners who can answer nearly any question that comes up... Upon purchase - - > Ask Away!!

Happy Boating Daze! - Art
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:35 PM   #33
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Hawsers and two transom steps? You must have gotten one of the upscale versions! That 4 bladed prop looks good. You'll be the fastest 34' trawler on the coast. Your rudder looks larger than mine. I don't have that tail on the trailing edge of the rudder. You should have good handling forward and backward. I'm so jealous.

Good luck with her! Changing the name?
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:04 PM   #34
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Thanks! I am thrilled! She's a great boat! Gonna keep the name.... Kinda feel like its bad luck to change it.
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