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Marin 07-05-2012 12:28 PM

Boat flip
 
Heard on the news this morning that a 34' boat (Silverton) turned over in Long Island Sound (I think) last night. Three kids drowned. IIRC were 27 people on the boat, I assume out watching fireworks.

Official speculation on the flip is a) overloading, b) some mechanical or other system failure, d) a wake.

bobofthenorth 07-05-2012 12:33 PM

27 people on a 34 foot boat according to the report I read. It seems unlikely the designer anticipated that kind of a loading. But it shouldn't surprise anyone - idiots abound on the water. Unfortunately their kids pay the Darwinian penalty in this case.

Tom.B 07-05-2012 12:55 PM

Bess and I discussed this while I took her to the airport this morning. It would be nice if people read the max passenger signage and followed by it. I'll bet insurance will not be covering this.

**EDIT** I found this @ AOL: The 34-foot Silverton yacht was made in 1984 but was "a very recent purchase," he said... the boat should have had a life jacket for each person on board. But authorities could not determine if the boat had 27 life jackets because the vessel remained under water. Police said it capsized and then drifted a bit before it sank in about 60 feet of water.

Can you imagine 27 people on this?
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=2262791

Tom-

THD 07-05-2012 01:15 PM

I saw that on my homepage this morning. Sad ending for sure. I just read an update that the owner said the boat was hit by a "rogue wave" after a thunderstorm passed over. Looking at the boat (www.silverton34.com/home.html) I can't see how you could possibly get 27 people on that boat! With that much weight (I am guessing at least 5,000 lbs of people and gear), doesn't seem like it would take much of a "rogue wave" to get a gunwale, especially around the cockpit, in the water.

refugio 07-05-2012 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GonzoF1 (Post 92780)
Can you imagine 27 people on this?
View Boat Photos - YachtWorld.com

And "on" is a key word here - when I've taken people out for fireworks (or to watch the Blue Angels at SeaFair) the young ones migrate to the highest parts of my boat.

They were probably sitting on top of the radar arch on that boat! <shudder>

Boydster 07-05-2012 01:20 PM

Heard on one newscast that the boat was a very recent purchase...surmise from that what you may.

Moonstruck 07-05-2012 01:29 PM

Usually firworks are some distance away, and not in a 360 degree pattern. Imagine a 34' boat overloaded with 27 people. The boat could probably have enough bouyancy to support the weight if it was well distributed, and the boat was handled slowly and carefully.

Now imagine the same boat when 27 people were all on one side watching fireworks. Crazy. The poor kids were supposed to be under the care of adults. That is criminal.

A similar situation occurred in Calabougie Sound off Hilton Head. A 50' Marine Trader that was used in charter service for cruises and dolphin watching flipped. No deaths, but about 50 prople went into the water Luckily the water was fairly shallow, and the boat was on its side but not totally under.. They were mostly on the top deck and ran to one side to see the dolphins. The boat was raised and brought into Palmetto Bay by Majers Diving and Salvage. It stayed there while work was being done. Don't know what finally happened to the boat.

CPseudonym 07-05-2012 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GonzoF1
It would be nice if people read the max passenger signage and followed by it.

Tom-

Question for all. Do any of you have factory provided signage on your boat that states a rated capacity?

refugio 07-05-2012 02:15 PM

My dinghy has one - 8 passengers!
Nautica International

I've had 5 on it for a short hop on Lake Union and felt it was marginal - I can't even imagine where the other 3 would have sat.

rwidman 07-05-2012 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPseudonym (Post 92792)
Question for all. Do any of you have factory provided signage on your boat that states a rated capacity?

I do not. There used to be a decal that, I believe, listed a maximum of six persons on the flybridge, but that was faded away before I bought the boat.

Personally, I do not need signs to tell me what is stupid or dangerous and what is not. Through education and life experience, I can figure these things out on my own.

For example, if I buy a cup of coffee, I assume it will be hot, I don't need a sign or label to tell me.

I have labels on the windows in my house warning me that "Open windows can be dangerous." :rolleyes:

rwidman 07-05-2012 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GonzoF1 (Post 92780)
...... It would be nice if people read the max passenger signage and followed by it. I'll bet insurance will not be covering this.

Insurance will cover this accident. Just because you do something stupid doesn't mean you are not still covered by your insurance policy. If it did, they would never have to pay a claim.

edit: The owner's liability may exceed the policy limits with three deaths and multiple injuries, but he will be covered up to those limits.

Tom.B 07-05-2012 02:56 PM

Yea... I guess y'all are right about that.

Moonstruck 07-05-2012 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwidman (Post 92797)
Insurance will cover this accident. Just because you do something stupid doesn't mean you are not still covered by your insurance policy. If it did, they would never have to pay a claim.

edit: The owner's liability may exceed the policy limits with three deaths and multiple injuries, but he will be covered up to those limits.

You can believe that the damage award will exceed insurance limits. This guy will be financially ruined. I know of a SeaRay dealer that was doing well, but had to sell the business to settle an over insurance limit award.

I know someone cruising a large Krogen today because a business partner had to sell cheaply to settle the same. If there are any assets, they will be attached.

rwidman 07-05-2012 03:30 PM

One thing to seriously think about when you invite guests abord your boat is the possibility of an accident and the possibility of you being held financially responsible.

We may not like to think about it, but when someone dies or is seriously or permanently injured, friendships may dissolve. If your fishing buddy can't support his family any more, he or his widow is going to be looking for some way to support his family and if you were in any way even remotely responsible, you will be on the hook.

Around here, and some places I have traveled, boats are expected to raft to docks (restaurant, public, and such). Sometimes they are three or four deep.

Aside from possible damage to your boat if someone rafts to it, and the dirt and mud they may drag aboard, what happens if an univited stranger from a boat rafted to yours without your express permission were to slip and fall into the water from your boat and drown or become crushed between your boat and another?

You might win the lawsuit, but you will have to defend yourself.

Moonstruck 07-05-2012 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwidman (Post 92803)

You might win the lawsuit, but you will have to defend yourself.

That is a really big advantage of being insured. Having the insurance company cover the expense of defending the law suit.

markpierce 07-05-2012 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPseudonym (Post 92792)
Question for all. Do any of you have factory provided signage on your boat that states a rated capacity?

In California at least, only single-hulled motorboats less than 20 feet in length manufactured after 1972 must display capacity and safe-horsepower information.

Required:

http://images5a.snapfish.com/2323232...33695336nu0mrj

Not required:

http://images5a.snapfish.com/2323232...%3B48336nu0mrj

Pineapple Girl 07-05-2012 04:22 PM

Wow this is awful. I think we've discussed before, even on a boat w a passenger limit posted, it's based on much lighter people than your average American today.

We've had thirteen people on our 35' trawler and I found it very stressful to "mind" that many people, especially with a few young kids wandering around. Guess a lot of it is mind set. I want to know my guests are safe and enjoying themselves. Maybe that's why I'd rather be out w just myself and Matt!

We have an umbrella liability policy, more because if anything ever happened to anyone "on our watch" we'd be devastated and would want to be able to provide something financially. We knew someone whose mast came down (sailboat) and paralyzed his friend/ crew. The skipper had minimal insurance. We got the umbrella right after that.

Sortie 07-05-2012 04:25 PM

You should not have to have a plaque to tell you the 27 people on a 34' boat is overloaded. With minimial experience a reasonable person could feel the major change in behavior of the boat.

I have run a couple of these boats,Silverton and Lurs 34'flybridge. They are tender to start with,lightly built and in no way designed to handle that load. USCG now says the average American weighs 185lbs.Thus you are adding just under 5,ooo lbs. You don't need a plaque to tell you not good. The Lures 34 I ran, would become tender with 5 people on the bridge. Wonder how many were on the bridge, sides etc.

This is not an accident,this is careless stupid behavior.

John

Marin 07-05-2012 04:29 PM

The owner is claiiming a "rogue wave" flipped his boat. Given that there were a lot of other boats in the immediate area, some of which were close enough to start pulling people out of the water right away, it should be easy enough to determine if there was any sort of abnormal wave or not.

markpierce 07-05-2012 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sortie (Post 92814)
You should not have to have a plaque to tell you the 27 people on a 34' boat is overloaded. With minimial experience a reasonable person could feel the major change in behavior of the boat.

Most I've had on board is five and wouldn't feel comfortable with more than six, including myself on the 14-ton Coot during a day (not overnight) trip.

http://www.trawlerforum.com/attachme...a968f23f00.jpg


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