Trawler Forum

Trawler Forum (http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/)
-   Electrical and Electronics & Navigation (http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s4/)
-   -   Paper Charts (http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s4/paper-charts-5082.html)

xfedex 01-05-2012 08:39 PM

Paper Charts
 
I use paper charts to double check my Nobletec running on a laptop. I do not update the paper IAW notice to mariners. They were accurate in 1984 but not today. *

It is true that buoys have been added and numbers on buoys have changed. I am trying to think of something changing on paper that would really be a need to know item. The substantial relocation of a marker or buoy *would be significant I think.*

My travels are in Washington and British Columbia.*Am I in the minority as far as not religiously updating paper charts?

HopCar 01-05-2012 09:25 PM

RE: Paper Charts
 
Judging from my sales of paper charts I'd say you're in the minority for even having a paper chart. Your charts were not accurate in 1984. Charts have errors on them the day they are printed. You just have to be aware of that and keep your eyes open. Don't forget that electronic charts have errors also. That said, if I was going somewhere I wasn't familiar with, I'd want a fresh chart.

Jay N 01-05-2012 09:33 PM

RE: Paper Charts
 
My chart porfolio for our cruising waters includes charts dated back as far as 1964, and includes charts dated 2011.

Every year we buy a select number of new paper charts to add.

Of course, it's important to understand that basically the rocks/reefs do not change, but the ATON'S might.*

So the navigation challenge is to compare all charted aids with observed aids, and then make a quick correction, if required.* What happens is that this process greatly*improve situational awareness, which has a positive effect on safety.

So, the answer is that paper charts are not kept up-to-date until used.* Our electronic charts are updated weekly (at least for US waters).

weebobby 01-05-2012 11:24 PM

RE: Paper Charts
 
Quote:

Jay N wrote:
My chart porfolio for our cruising waters includes charts dated back as far as 1964, and includes charts dated 2011.

Every year we buy a select number of new paper charts to add.

Of course, it's important to understand that basically the rocks/reefs do not change, but the ATON'S might.*

So the navigation challenge is to compare all charted aids with observed aids, and then make a quick correction, if required.* What happens is that this process greatly*improve situational awareness, which has a positive effect on safety.

So, the answer is that paper charts are not kept up-to-date until used.* Our electronic charts are updated weekly (at least for US waters).
*But previously uncharted rocks/reefs are still being found..........

Marin 01-06-2012 01:13 AM

RE: Paper Charts
 
Quote:

xfedex wrote:

My travels are in Washington and British Columbia.*Am I in the minority as far as not religiously updating paper charts?
Don't know.* But we use paper charts at all times when we're cruising, along with our two large dedicated GPS chart plotters and the radar.* We do not update the charts as land masses don't move much around here and it's been our experience and observation in this area that navaids---on shore or in the water--- rarely change.

We have a chart board next to the helm that holds the big MapTech format chart books we have for Puget Sound, the Gulf Islands, Sunshine Coast, Desolation Sound, etc.* Plus we have all the full size NOAA and Canadian charts for the entire area from the San Juans up to Queen Charlotte Strait rolled up and stored in the aft cabin.* We rarely use the full-size charts unless we're in an area not covered by one of the big chartbooks.

We like having the paper charts at the helm because we can get the "big picture" in an instant without having to zoom in or out, and there is less clutter on the paper charts than on the electronic charts displays simply by virtue of the size difference.*

We do not plot courses except for those that we use frequently, and we plotted them on the paper charts years ago.* But having these courses on paper is a good backup in case the electronics go down, which they never have in the 13 years we've owned the boat.

So while our primary means of navigation are the two plotters, the radar, and the compass, we do find the paper charts useful on almost every cruise.

Both my wife and I like and are very much at home with paper charts, me from flying and my wife from both flying and her stint in the Navy.* So we just like having them around.

To someone who doesn't like messing with paper charts, or doesn't like them, or doesn't believe in them, the reliability of electronics these days makes it very unlikely that a failure will leave a person blind.* So I don't have any issue with people who say they don't have any paper charts on board and use only electronics.

But we wouldn't take the boat out--- actually either boat because we use paper on the Arima, too, along with its GPS plotter--- without having the paper charts with us.

tinped 01-06-2012 03:45 AM

RE: Paper Charts
 
what about wrecks?

FF 01-06-2012 04:24 AM

RE: Paper Charts
 
In coastal areas we use the paper charts , and at displacement speeds its no bother to x the old buoy number and write in the new one.

A small hand held GPS gives position and route .

Some ICW charts from the late 60's have 5 or 6 re-numberings per location , but then we don't travel every year.

RCook 01-06-2012 07:27 AM

RE: Paper Charts
 
FWIW, there are several completely new, and much higher quality, charts for the central BC coast in the last several years.

Old_Salt 01-06-2012 08:27 AM

RE: Paper Charts
 
What the hell?* Doesnt anyone here use Notices to Mariners??


I would assume ( I know makes an ass out of U and me ) that everyone on this thread uses* the internet once in a while.* Doesnt anyone receive CHS Notices to Mariners ? *They will email you with changes to CHS charts.


Try checking out :


http://www.notmar.gc.ca/


http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/notices-avis-eng.htm


*


Fill out the email forum for personal notification of changes on the water and changes to charts:


http://www.notmar.gc.ca/search/mycharts-eng.php


*


Use the lists on the LHS of the pages above to get updates to charts you already possess.


Click on the Chart No. (underlined) on the list below, to make sure you are looking for the chart you want:


http://www.charts.gc.ca/charts-carte...=CatalogueList


*


For Washington and SEA boaters:


http://www.nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/s...hartspubs.html


List of Charts to view:


http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineVie...werTable.shtml


http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineVie...werTable.shtml


*


Yr Wlelcome!


Old_Surly to bed Yadda-Yadda

yachtbrokerguy 01-06-2012 10:58 AM

Paper Charts
 
I own paper charts from Texas to Maine and will bring them with me for a delivery, they are old and do not have all the updates but I can use them for planning much easier than a plotter. Many of the boats I am moving will have newer paper charts, but I like to use my own personal charts because I have written many comments about the Intracoastal, about shoaling areas, changes of markers, good restaurants, bridge clearances and names, and more.


-- Edited by yachtbrokerguy on Friday 6th of January 2012 11:59:43 AM

Pineapple Girl 01-06-2012 11:17 AM

RE: Paper Charts
 
Around the SF bay we rarely break out the paper charts.*

In the Delta last summer we always had a paper "chart" out.* I have "chart" in quotes as we notced after we started using it that it was marked "not for navigation".* This is one of those Maptech ones that folds up like a map you'd have had in your car back in the day.* I have already been shopping for NOAA CHARTS of the area for when we go back this summer.* I was looking at the Print on Demand which seem to be as up to date as anything is going to be.* Many times the GPS/CP was enough off to get us in trouble if we weren't watching the paper as well.*

If I was going somewhere new to me I would definitely want recent*paper charts to cross reference with my GPS/CP.

Depending where we are going we will check for notice to mariner info.* in particular there is a sometimes gaurded exclusionary zone on the way to the delta at the Naval Weapons depot.* We check if the zone is in force and how the alternate channel is marked (yuo have to go outside the regular channel to stay outside the zone).* Young people with large guns will come over and yell at you if you are not in the correct place. http://www.sparkimg.com/emoticons/no.gif

Marin 01-06-2012 01:24 PM

Paper Charts
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

tinped wrote:
what about wrecks?
Since we're usually in water that's 200-600 feet deep, a wreck is not something we lose any sleep over.* We have boats that go up on the rocks now and then but since we don't make a habit of navigating through the same rocks, their fate is of no consequence to us.* And*most if not all of these boats are eventually recovered one way or the other.

If I recall correctly the water under our keel when I took the attached photo was some 800' deep.* And it was probably 100' deep a boat length or two from either shoreline.* So wrecks don't seem to pose any sort of navigational issue around here, at least not that I've ever heard.


*


-- Edited by Marin on Friday 6th of January 2012 03:20:36 PM

Marin 01-06-2012 01:36 PM

RE: Paper Charts
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Pineapple Girl wrote:
*I have "chart" in quotes as we notced after we started using it that it was marked "not for navigation".* This is one of those Maptech ones that folds up like a map you'd have had in your car back in the day.*
I would have thought with all the boating activity in SFO that there would be a large MapTech-type chartbook available for the bay, river, delta, etc.* The big chart books--- if you have the space to lay them out--- are great.* I've posted this photo before but it shows how our portable*"chart table" fits over the companionway to the forward cabin.* Very handy.

koliver 01-06-2012 01:55 PM

RE: Paper Charts
 
what about wrecks?

*

In BC, if the wreck is in a "fairway"* it has to get removed.* Almost everywhere else, as Marin points out, is either a known hazard, so you won't go there, or is so deep that the wreck is of no consequence.

If the wreck is insured, the insurance co will salvage, to determine whether it was an intentional or accidental wreck.

Codger2 01-06-2012 02:30 PM

RE: Paper Charts
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Marin wrote:I've posted this photo before but it shows how our portable*"chart table" fits over the companionway to the forward cabin.* Very handy.
* * * * Same here but mine is hinged.

Capn Chuck 01-06-2012 02:53 PM

RE: Paper Charts
 
Like Marin, we have our paper charts out when we are cruising. Not so much when we are puttering around in local waters. Many, many, many times we refer to the paper charts to view and clarify things that don't show on our plotter or computer, both of which we also have running when under way. You just can't have too much information. Chuck

markpierce 01-06-2012 03:30 PM

RE: Paper Charts
 
1 Attachment(s)
With GPS/charter and radar on, I usually have the paper chart out too.* The paper chart gives me a larger view while the electronic chart has more detail when zoomed in.

Jay N 01-06-2012 09:16 PM

RE: Paper Charts
 
Quote:

weebobby wrote:
*
*But previously uncharted rocks/reefs are still being found..........

Even if you have your charts updated weekly, and listen to broadcast notice to mariners (US) and regularly monitor Ch 16 for safety transmissions, you* always run the risk that you will find something that no one else has found.

But the odds are very, very slight, especially in this age of surveying with side-scan sonar, etc.

On the other hand, I am not as trusting of certain SE Alaska charts.* There are still a few that note survey information gathered by the Russians in the 1800's.

Moonstruck 01-07-2012 07:00 AM

RE: Paper Charts
 
1 Attachment(s)
We use the belt, suspenders, and probably te elastic band system. *When not running radar, we use the second display to display a large area of the chart to keep up with our progress. *The first display is zoomed in to show as much detaiil as possible. *Then there is the paper chart in front of the navigator station under a Lexan cover.

Nomad Willy 01-07-2012 09:48 AM

RE: Paper Charts
 
1 Attachment(s)
When I designed and built this boat I made the "dashboard" large enough and slanted so I could use a large chart while underway. One can fold a chart in thirds and so you deed'nt "run" right next to a fold, fold it in half also. As for chart storage my Albin had a good recommendation. Under the bunk mattress. But they will get a little black mould on them in damp places like SEA over time.

Eric


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:24 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012