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-   -   Nordhavn 43 vs 47 (http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s18/nordhavn-43-vs-47-a-47108.html)

totalNewb 10-15-2019 10:20 PM

Nordhavn 43 vs 47
 
Hi

Looking around at Nordhavns in this size, it looks like there is very little difference in used prices. Is there a reason for this? Are there downsides to the 47 that the 43 doesn't have?

What am I missing?

A little bit of information here was helpful

https://www.suwena.net/en/node/179

OldDan1943 10-15-2019 11:00 PM

Depends upon the market in the immediate area.
A. Do you want the extra length for storage and a second comfortable stateroom and perhaps a 2nd head?
B. The cruising style you plan.
C. The price difference
D. Maybe one boat is more maintained than the other?

totalNewb 10-15-2019 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDan1943 (Post 811652)
Depends upon the market in the immediate area.
A. Do you want the extra length for storage and a second comfortable stateroom and perhaps a 2nd head?
B. The cruising style you plan.
C. The price difference
D. Maybe one boat is more maintained than the other?

Hey OldDan. Thanks

a) I do prefer the second stateroom in the 47. I also prefer the flybridge area too
b) I do want a pacific crossing vessel (bladder tanks permitting)
c) The price difference isn't much from what's available at the moment anyway
d) The 47's I've seen tend to have more hours on the engines

I like the idea of extra space but as the price is so close, I wondered what I might be missing.

OldDan1943 10-15-2019 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by totalNewb (Post 811658)
Hey OldDan. Thanks

a) I do prefer the second stateroom in the 47. I also prefer the flybridge area too
b) I do want a pacific crossing vessel (bladder tanks permitting)
c) The price difference isn't much from what's available at the moment anyway
d) The 47's I've seen tend to have more hours on the engines

I like the idea of extra space but as the price is so close, I wondered what I might be missing.

One thing I failed to mention is, base upon my experience with my N46 is, the standard bow thruster was under powered. I more than doubled the HP.

At some point, your heart and mind has a major input. You have made your decision, you just have to accept it.

totalNewb 10-15-2019 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDan1943 (Post 811665)
One thing I failed to mention is, base upon my experience with my N46 is, the standard bow thruster was under powered. I more than doubled the HP.

Ok. Thanks for pointing that out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDan1943 (Post 811665)
At some point, your heart and mind has a major input. You have made your decision, you just have to accept it.

Haha. Thanks for the insight!

IRENE 10-15-2019 11:38 PM

I have heard a saying, “If you have seen one Nordhavn, you have seen one Nordhavn”. They are, as you might imagine, very different due to change orders during the build and generations of “improvements”.

The 47 has the full, traditional deck on the starboard side. The 43 has a different, smaller, design side deck. The 47 is roughly 20,000 pounds more boat. This is a substantial size difference. I have seen prices all over the range...but the location, condition, age, and equipment levels have also been very different.

You should try to get on a few and get a feel for what makes you happy. There are gatherings of the boats from time to time. Perhaps that would be an occasion for you to see many in-person.

OldDan1943 10-15-2019 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by totalNewb (Post 811666)
Ok. Thanks for pointing that out.



Haha. Thanks for the insight!

No matter which boat you select, you will make modifications to make the boat “your.” Now, you decide, do you wish to spend the money to make a larger boat “yours” or the smaller boat?

BruceK 10-16-2019 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRENE (Post 811667)
..You should try to get on a few and get a feel for what makes you happy. There are gatherings of the boats from time to time. Perhaps that would be an occasion for you to see many in-person.

In Australia there is a 43,a 46, and 2 60s which have very different prices,for sale on the most used site. Looks like an overseas shopping trip, and an east > west trip home.

totalNewb 10-16-2019 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceK (Post 811691)
In Australia there is a 43,a 46, and 2 60s which have very different prices,for sale on the most used site. Looks like an overseas shopping trip, and an east > west trip home.

Yeah. I'll be free to roam soon. I'm looking all over.

There's a 47 in Trinidad & Tobago but it's had some damage in the past which makes me nervous as a total newb.

totalNewb 10-16-2019 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDan1943 (Post 811668)
No matter which boat you select, you will make modifications to make the boat “your.” Now, you decide, do you wish to spend the money to make a larger boat “yours” or the smaller boat?

Yeah, can't find anything 'off the shelf' that suits perfectly but didn't expect to. Happy to 'make it my own' if it makes good sense.

totalNewb 10-16-2019 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRENE (Post 811667)
The 47 has the full, traditional deck on the starboard side. The 43 has a different, smaller, design side deck. The 47 is roughly 20,000 pounds more boat. This is a substantial size difference. I have seen prices all over the range...but the location, condition, age, and equipment levels have also been very different.

It seems that location has a BIG effect on the price.


Quote:

Originally Posted by IRENE (Post 811667)
You should try to get on a few and get a feel for what makes you happy. There are gatherings of the boats from time to time. Perhaps that would be an occasion for you to see many in-person.

I wish there were more around but I agree.

OldDan1943 10-16-2019 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by totalNewb (Post 811695)
Yeah, can't find anything 'off the shelf' that suits perfectly but didn't expect to. Happy to 'make it my own' if it makes good sense.

Owning a boat is not a sign of good sense. LOL

mvweebles 10-16-2019 05:59 AM

The N47 was introduced around 2000, the N43 didn't roll off the line until around 2005, so the N43s are naturally newer on average. I delivered a lot of new Nordhavn at the time. I cannot comment on the 43 as I exited the delivery business just prior to their introduction, but I did deliver a dozen or so 47s to Oregon and Washington to avoid sales tax in California. I found the boat to be slow and a bit awkward but for me, gold standard was the N57. I was not a fan of the less expensive exterior doors and windows PAE used on the N47 and N55

I was excited about the N43 and I wonder how they perform. The N40, who's production had been moved to China at about the same time (prior was the pacific seacrsft yard, the only Nordhavn to be built in US), was a remarkably strong performer. I would expect it to be a bit faster and more mannerly than the N47. I personally am fine with the tradeoff of salon space vs side deck - the cockpit is clear and easy to work from. I did deliver one N47 where the owner did not have a flybridge installed - definitely a better looking boat visually.

These are both well established boats from a very reputable builder. Both will have decent resale prospects when the time comes. I agree that it's too bad the 43 can't be had for a discount, but they are two very different boats. The 43 is a stretched 40. The 47 is a reduced 55. If two similarly priced and condition boats were sitting at a dock and I had to chose one, would be the 43.

OldDan1943 10-16-2019 07:34 AM

Mvweebles, I got the feeling they were searching for a “seller” to replace the 46.
I understand, the ER on the 47 was larger. How they distributed the +1 foot to the interior, I never learned.
I had a deposit on the smaller version but, they kept raising the price so I requested and got my deposit back.
I have seen pics where the exhaust was run all the way up the mast.
I kept my N46 until some yeahoo, in the yard, took a jack stand out before he put in another. Boat fell over, port stabilizer ended up in the owner’s SR.... constructive loss
Someone bought it, repaired it and sailed for about 2 years and put it back on the market. I suspect his decision was he wanted to move a shore. Someone posted the ad here but forgot where. A note was made, in the ad, of the accident and a rebuilt constructive loss.

totalNewb 10-16-2019 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDan1943 (Post 811702)
Owning a boat is not a sign of good sense. LOL

Fair one!:rofl:

mvweebles 10-16-2019 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDan1943 (Post 811713)
Mvweebles, I got the feeling they were searching for a “seller” to replace the 46.
I understand, the ER on the 47 was larger. How they distributed the +1 foot to the interior, I never learned.

In my opinion, the 47 and 46 bore little similarity to one another. PAE started with two models - the 46 and 62, both had very classic lines that obviously did well for them. Next came the N50 and subsequent N57, with more motoryacht lines to them. They were both relatively fast, and introduced concept of "Maintenance Strakes," bump-outs in the hull either side of the engine to provide standing headroom. Stroke of genius in my opinion. My understanding is the N57, with it's 'chariot flybridge' located slightly behind the pilothouse roof, similar to KK42s, was due to limited height at the manufacturing facility. The N40 was introduced around this time with the fanfare of the ATW event, which was admittedly impressive. I have to say, I really, really wanted to dislike the N40 as it was traitorous compared to the N46/N62 classic lines. But the N40 was impressive - the space in the ER alone was amazing: somewhere I have a picture with a dozen people in the engine room at a Trawler Fest.

In the early 2000's, PAE was in high-gear with larger, taller boats (the N55 for example). They moved manufacturing to a larger yard. From my simple observation, many of the fittings were changed and quality reduced somewhat. The doors were painted aluminum, which oxidized and bubbled quickly. The boat design appeared to increased A/B ratio and rely on stabilization more heavily (in a modest seaway, the N40, for example, rides fairly well without stabilization - the N47....not so much). I expect the N43 would be an extension of the N40 with a larger PH and a helm chair.

After about 2005, I really lost track of boats, and PAE as I returned to corporate life, which was lucky for me - the 2008 recession would have left me hugely exposed as a delivery captain for boats which were not selling. I have no opinion on Nordhavn's of more modern vintage.

If you read Leishman's re-write of Voyaging Under Power, you will find very quiet clues to PAE's learning curve on the N46. Originally, they wanted the 1000 gallon fuel tank midships for balance, but decided to move it aft with saddle tanks to provide more living space. Midway through the production run, they went to fiberglass tanks and distributed them more forward. Leishman mentions that if they were to do the design over, he would reduce the rake of the bow and increase the waterline. I think he's spot-on: would reduce reserve buoyancy in the bow and balance the boat a bit to prevent hobby-horsing in a head sea. I delivered a half dozen N46's north from Dana Point CA against prevailing seas to the PNW, including one of the very last ones built. Fully loaded, the N46 squats a bit in the stern, and is a bit bouncy in the bow in headseas - I fully preferred running with half-load of fuel when headed north to flatten the ride.

At any rate, my heart still lusts after the N46/N62. But the N57 is my favorite, though I am not keen on the bulbous bow due to slap/noise in a seaway (again, my fate as a delivery skipper at the time). But is a relatively fast boat. I delivered one from Dana Point to Ft Lauderdale - about 4500 nms in 25-days and burned 3000 gallons......and averaged 9.3 kts (excluding Canal time).

Boats are heavily opinion-driven. All I can tell you is I spent a lot of time on Nordhavns under mostly uncomfortable conditions - headseas heading north along the very long California coast to escape sales tax. They are all very good boats from a company that has earned respect not just an adroit marketer, but from people who test their boats and make adjustments. Despite feeling betrayed by the design of the N40, it was a fantastic boat. Thus my strong inclination on the N43. The N47 did not similarly impress me thus my statement that if similar condition examples were at the same dock and I had to chose one, no question for me, would be the N43.

twistedtree 10-16-2019 08:54 AM

I'd pick the 47. It's just more boat and more space, and boats only get smaller over time, never bigger. I'm an advocate of buying the BIGGEST boat that you can manage, as opposed to the SMALLEST that will meet your needs as is often recommended. The feeling of being overwhelmed by "bigness" will wear off very quickly and you have a boat that will serve you for a long time. But "smallness" will wear off faster and there is only one way to fix it....... go buy the bigger boat that you passed on before.....

tiltrider1 10-16-2019 10:02 AM

I’m not a nordhavn expert. I do agree with twistedtree. Buy the biggest boat you can afford but never buy less boat than you need.

Codger2 10-16-2019 10:30 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by twistedtree (Post 811729)
I'm an advocate of buying the BIGGEST boat that you can manage, as opposed to the SMALLEST that will meet your needs as is often recommended.

As much as I respect TT's opinion on this thread, I respectfully disagree. I've had 9 boats since 1995, running anywhere from 30' to 54' & after much thought I've concluded that one should buy the smallest boat that has everything you want. The difference in costs to maintain the vessel are considerable as you move up in size. Taxes, slip fees, divers, insurance, boat washers,etc.

Now, you've indicated that buying a boat that is capable of crossing oceans is one of your desires. IMHO, there isn't a boat of any size (other than an aircraft carrier) that I would feel safe on while crossing an ocean. Besides, comparing a 43 footer to a 47 footer for ocean transits is foolhardy at best.

Below is a photo of the last boat I crossed an ocean on.

Donsan 10-16-2019 10:52 AM

IMHO, there is a big difference in doing a crossing when conditions are considered optimal vice crossing when Uncle tells you to.


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