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Kieffer4 11-04-2011 08:46 AM

Insurance - Newbie question
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hello everyone,

Been lurking on the forum for a while now and have learned a lot. Without going into a long story now we are in the planning stages of buying a trawler type vessel.

Been on boats since I was 5 (now 40). Even worked on tugs for years and am still in the business but in the office side now. Grew up on a 36' Chris Craft. Past 10 years we have been into powerboating and currently own a 388 Hustler. Looking to slow down. Started looking at Sea Ray cruisers and similar but nothing really caught my eye. Stumbled onto some trawlers and really like the layout.

Anyways, on to my question. We live in Louisiana just north of New Olreans*so boat insurance is not cheap. We have a slip at our house on a river with acess to the gulf (about 60 miles). Playing with powerboats you get use to high insurance. We pay about $3K per year with a clean record. I have neighbors that pay three times as much.

Looking for who people are using for insurance on a trawler. Looking at 40-50'. Just trying to factor in insurance cost into the equation. Once we narrow down a specific model(s) I can start getting quotes. Just looking for insight at this point.

Thanks for all the great information.

Kieffer

(Just a pic of the latest in a long line of boats b/c everyine likes pics! :) )

Kieffer4 11-04-2011 09:04 AM

Insurance providers / cost
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hello everyone,

Been lurking on the forum for a while. Grew up on a 36 Chris Craft and have been in boating my whole life. Even worked on a boat for several years and both my wife and I are in the marine industry.

For the last 10 years we have been into powerboating (currently 388 Hustler) and are now looking to slow down. Was thinking the next boat would be an express cruiser but after looking around I really like the idea of a trawler. I've been reading everything I can find trying to be as informed as possible before shopping. My list of things I want in a trawler is taking shape and are starting to narrow down designs but* I will get into that later.

Being into performance boats and living just outside New Orleans we are not strangers to high insurance costs, ~3K per year. I have neighbors that pay three times as much.

Just looking to see who people are using for insurance. I have my concerns of what costs may be in the gulf region. Looking at $150-200K vessels 40'+/-. Just trying to factor in all costs.....

Thanks for any input and thanks for all the great info shared on the forum.

*

*

*

skipperdude 11-04-2011 10:06 AM

RE: Insurance providers / cost
 
WOW!!! Cool boat. I bet you have an insurance bill with that baby.

My insurance is through All State. I don't know about what what the cost would be on the type of boat you are looking for. I would think it would break down to what you paid for the boat. With a modifier based on your experience.

Heck you can even get a discount for taking a USCG class.

SD

How fast does that boat go and can it handle any sort of a sea?

Kieffer4 11-04-2011 10:32 AM

RE: Insurance providers / cost
 
1 Attachment(s)
I'm currently with Progressive. They won't write a boat this size or speed but since I've had continuous coverage for so many years I'm kind of "grandfathered" in. Powerboat insurance can get pretty steep. Almost bought a 40' cat last year but got $7-8K per year insurance quotes even with a clean record. Blew the whole deal for me.

Although we live inland enough the trawler should be able to weather a storm okay, I worry being in the gulf region insurance could be outrageous. I know Progressive won't cover any damage from a named storm. Not a big deal with the current boat because we can pick it up and store it inside. A trawler though is another story. Just wondering if anyone else has similar experience.

____________________________

Hustler runs mid 90's just about any time. Anything over 3' or so it starts to spend more time in the air than in the water and the ride gets a bit rough, especially when the other half start yelling at me to slow down.

*

Marin 11-04-2011 12:23 PM

RE: Insurance providers / cost
 
On the recommendation of the GB dealer who found our boat for us we have our yacht policy through Anchor Marine in Seattle. They are a broker, so shop for the best insurance coverage at the best price. They have changed us to a different provider about three times over the last 13 years. The cost has always been about $1,200 a year. While Anchor Marine is located in Seattle with a new office in Alaska, I believe they offer their service to the whole country.

Kieffer4 11-04-2011 12:29 PM

RE: Insurance providers / cost
 
Quote:

Marin wrote:
On the recommendation of the GB dealer who found our boat for us we have our yacht policy through Anchor Marine in Seattle. They are a broker, so shop for the best insurance coverage at the best price. They have changed us to a different provider about three times over the last 13 years. The cost has always been about $1,200 a year. While Anchor Marine is located in Seattle with a new office in Alaska, I believe they offer their service to the whole country.
Thanks, that seems pretty reasonable.*

yachtbrokerguy 11-04-2011 01:35 PM

RE: Insurance - Newbie question
 
Insurance costs have multible factors. Your location in a hurricane risk area is one, the speed of the boat is another, past claims, your experience ,and the value is another factor. By having more experience and slowing down, you should be able to lower your rates! I always suggest to clients to check with their current agent as you might have a personal relationship and at least they have your current track record for claims.
I would like to see a paint scheme on a trawler like your present boat!!

Alfton 11-04-2011 01:37 PM

RE: Insurance providers / cost
 
Kieffer,

I am also in the marine industry.* Are you related at someone that used to work for Ingram Barge a long time ago?*

I had trouble insuring my trawler due to the sevre damage sustainded during IKE.* I purchased the boat after it was salvaged.* I was turned down by a lot of insurance companies, even for liability only insurance.* I then turned to a marine insurace broker who works the Gulf Coast Kevin Severance.* He was able to take care of securing insurance.* might be worth the call

http://www.insurancenavigators.com/

*

Kieffer4 11-04-2011 01:41 PM

RE: Insurance providers / cost
 
Quote:

Alfton wrote:
Kieffer,

I am also in the marine industry.* Are you related at someone that used to work for Ingram Barge a long time ago?*

--------------------------

I work for Marquette Transportation, formerley part of Eckstein Marine. Been with Blessey and National Marine to name a few. Done business with Ingram for years and know quite a few folks over there.

*

*

Alfton 11-04-2011 01:43 PM

RE: Insurance providers / cost
 
I was just wondering if you were related to a guy named T-Bo Bailey.* Worked the river for Ingram, Great guy (most likely dead by now).

Kieffer4 11-04-2011 01:45 PM

RE: Insurance providers / cost
 
Quote:

Alfton wrote:
I was just wondering if you were related to a guy named T-Bo Bailey.* Worked the river for Ingram, Great guy (most likely dead by now).
*No relation that I am aware of......

Ocean Breeze NL 11-04-2011 02:13 PM

RE: Insurance providers / cost
 
I'm with Federated Agencies up here in Canada. We run a 38' Ocean Alexander and it cost us $1175/yr.

Kieffer4 11-04-2011 03:36 PM

RE: Insurance - Newbie question
 
Sorry for the two threads. I didnt think the first one posted. :no:

Steve 11-04-2011 04:39 PM

RE: Insurance - Newbie question
 
I keep my 2003 Monk 36 in Houma I use Boat US insurance it runs about $4,200.00 a year.
Steve W

Codger2 11-04-2011 05:47 PM

RE: Insurance providers / cost
 
I'm with American Marine in Ojai, CA (Travelers) and my bill (just paid it) was $941.00.

Andy G 11-04-2011 06:47 PM

RE: Insurance providers / cost
 
You need to compare apples with apples to get an idea of a competative policy.What's the excess on the policy and also what is the boat insured for.

Sarawana for instance is insured to $200K with a premium of $1875 pa. The policy excess is $1,000. She probably isn't worth $200K but that's the agreed replacement value. Only claims made within the last four years have to be disclosed on the insurance application. With insurance it is the fine print which determines the best policy for you and your boat.

Ocean Breeze NL 11-04-2011 08:20 PM

RE: Insurance - Newbie question
 
My Insurance ( $1m coverage from soup to donuts ) has restrictions. It states access to all Canadian and US waters up to 100 miles of the mainland except for the following: the Fraser Rover east of the mouth of the Sumas River and the New York Harbour and the Hudson River below the Tappen Zee Bridge.

Anyone here got an idea for this exception? I don't know these areas.

Elwin
*

Delfin 11-04-2011 08:27 PM

RE: Insurance - Newbie question
 
Talk to Rich Haynie in Seattle. *Extremely conscientious and will find the best product for your boat, wherever you're located. *No affiliation, just a satisfied customer.

http://www.richhaynieinsurance.com/

Marin 11-04-2011 08:54 PM

RE: Insurance - Newbie question
 
The Fraser River east of the Sumas is a braided, twisting, multi-channel labarinth with shifting bars and muddy water with litle or no depth visibiity. Take a look at it on Google Earth and you'll see why your insurance company doesn't want you going anywhere near this area. The mouth of the Sumas on the Fraser is at 49 09 31 54 N and 122 07 17 71 W

It is possible for boats and tugs to go upriver a few miles to the short river going north to huge Harrison Lake. But local knowledge is essential as this can be a very dangerous set of waterways. Willy on this forum can elaborate on the challenges of taking a boat east of the Sumas.

Marin 11-04-2011 11:11 PM

RE: Insurance providers / cost
 
Quote:

CPseudonym wrote:
Do most of you have your policy separate from your homeowners/auto provider?

Is there a specific type of policy required? Like full coverage comp. liability etc.

*Yes, our boat policy is totally separate from our house, auto, etc. insurance.

There are more or less two kinds of insurance.* There is "regular" insurance, sort like what you'd have on your car, and there is "yacht" insurance (that's what it's called, a "yacht policy.")

There are advantages to a yacht policy (don't ask me what they are because I've forgotten) which is why we got this type of insurance when we bought the boat 13+ years ago.* However that's not to say that "regular" insurance doesn't have it's advantages, too.* But it might be worthwhile for you to find out the differences and the advantages of each.

One thing to be mindful of regardless of what kind of insurance you get is the trend among marinas to require proof of insurance in order to get or retain a slip.* Some marinas even ask to be named on the policy but I wouldn't advise going that far.* We provide (actually our broker automatically provides) a copy of our policy to the Port of Bellingham and they seem to be happy with that even though in their form letter they say they need to be a named party on the policy.

Marinas are requiring this in case your boat breaks the marina (or burns it down).* It's a controversial subject among some boaters, but I don't care enough about it to take a position.* We're going to insure the boat anyway,* they're happy with a copy of the policy, we give it to them, end of story.

CPseudonym 11-05-2011 12:04 AM

RE: Insurance providers / cost
 
"We're going to insure the boat anyway"

Our sentiments exactly, we just have not researched that piece of the puzzle yet. Thank you for the terminology lesson. The exact reason I have been gleaning as much information as possible from this forum.

jleonard 11-05-2011 04:54 AM

RE: Insurance providers / cost
 
We have BOAT US as that was the best deal I could find for us. I think it's something around $1300 after the USPS discount. That's for a 1983 40 Albin in Long Island Sound valued in the mid $80k range.

*

bnoft 11-05-2011 05:14 AM

RE: Insurance providers / cost
 
We were insured by Travelers thru a local agent but I contacted Global Marine Insurance after they presented at a rendezvous and they saved me about $250/yr and I have broader coverage. The boat is a 1991 42' Grand Banks with a declared value of about 250k and the policy costs about $1600/yr. we cruise the Chesapeake but the insurance permits us to travel south as far as Brunswick, GA during hurricane season, which surprised me.

Kieffer4 11-05-2011 07:47 AM

RE: Insurance - Newbie question
 
Quote:

Steve wrote:
I keep my 2003 Monk 36 in Houma I use Boat US insurance it runs about $4,200.00 a year.
Steve W



Being in Houma I think this is a pretty good comp. I'm thinking this may be more in line with the area I live in.

Thanks!

Edelweiss 11-05-2011 08:55 AM

Insurance providers / cost
 
Quote:

Marin wrote:*
One thing to be mindful of regardless of what kind of insurance you get is the trend among marinas to require proof of insurance in order to get or retain a slip.* Some marinas even ask to be named on the policy but I wouldn't advise going that far. **

*This is becoming more common, my Marina asks for proof of liability insurance minimum $300,000.* Even some boat repair yards have asked to be named on your policy before they would haul your boat.* That didn't last long as most insurance companies saw through that real quick and refused to add them.*
After going through a string of different insurers who gave me a teaser rate to sign you up and then raised your premium every year.* I finally decided to do some research and eventually settled on Boats US.* Not because they are the cheapest or best, but because at the time they quoted, they were price and coverage competitive, active in boating issues and legislation, have a good reputation, represent nearly one million boaters and at that time guaranteed to not require surveys every couple of years (like my old Ins. Co. was doing) and if they do, they would pay for the survey.* (My last survey was done in spring 2003)
A lot of it is insurance agent hype and salesmanship.* Sometimes it's hard to get around the salesmen slamming each others products (Insurance companies and underwriters) to get to the facts.* They all have horror stories about their competitors and why you should go with them. **If you feel more comfortable using an Agent, then by all means use one.* But it is not necessary, in order to have a good insurance policy.*
What I found was, you are looking for an "Agreed to Value" policy and then read the small print very carefully for exclusions.* It doesn't really matter if the insurer has the word Marine, Yacht, Nautical or Ship in its name. (Boat US is actually a group of like four CNA Insurance companies)* They're backed up by underwriters who carry the burden of paying claims.*
I have Travelers Ins. on my personal home and a number of rental properties and PEMCO Insurance on my cars.* They are all very good at what they do, but I never thought to check for marine insurance through them. *Do your research and find a reputable company with good ratings.
It was the hassle factor for me. *Is it really worth saving a couple of hundred dollars a year, if they demand a survey every three or four years and raise your premium at each renewal?*
But your choice
Larry B*


-- Edited by Edelweiss on Saturday 5th of November 2011 11:28:09 AM

Codger2 11-05-2011 09:20 AM

RE: Insurance - Newbie question
 
Quote:

Steve wrote:
I keep my 2003 Monk 36 in Houma I use Boat US insurance it runs about $4,200.00 a year.
Steve W
*That figure for a Monk 36 boggles my mind!

Ocean Breeze NL 11-05-2011 10:30 AM

RE: Insurance - Newbie question
 
Quote:

Steve wrote:
I keep my 2003 Monk 36 in Houma I use Boat US insurance it runs about $4,200.00 a year.
Steve W




WOW!!! That's high!!

Tom.B 11-05-2011 10:40 AM

RE: Insurance - Newbie question
 
Brokered thru Charter Lake Marine Insurance... 35' Trawler, no restrictions on cruising area (well, within US waters)... $585/year

CPseudonym 11-05-2011 10:40 AM

RE: Insurance providers / cost
 
Quote:

Edelweiss wrote:It was the hassle factor for me. *Is it really worth saving a couple of hundred dollars a year, if they demand a survey every three or four years and raise your premium at each renewal?*
But your choice
Larry B*



-- Edited by Edelweiss on Saturday 5th of November 2011 11:28:09 AM

*Are the survey requirements similar to what I would get in a pre-purchase survey? Would it include hauling the boat and inspecting the bottom too?

Edelweiss 11-05-2011 11:48 AM

Insurance - Newbie question
 
Quote:

CPseudonym wrote:Edelweiss wrote:It was the hassle factor for me. *Is it really worth saving a couple of hundred dollars a year, if they demand a survey every three or four years and raise your premium at each renewal?*
But your choice
Larry B*


*

*Are the survey requirements similar to what I would get in a pre-purchase survey? Would it include hauling the boat and inspecting the bottom too?

*Do you mean, does Boat US require a survey or the survey they pay for mid term. . . ? *Not exactly sure what you are asking?

Yes, Boats US requires an out-of-water insurance survey before they issue a policy. *Insurance surveys are a little different than pre-purchase surveys in that they are a little less detailed, but do include a hull and general condition report and the surveyor's estimate of value. *They didn't ask for an engine survey in 2003. * *

They haven't asked for a survey since then, I know nothing about that. I've also heard Boats US no longer offers the paid survey. *But that was told to me by the lady who owns the boat next to me and . . . . she is an insurance agent who doesn't sell Boats US. *So I would take that with a grain of salt until I heard it from them.


-- Edited by Edelweiss on Saturday 5th of November 2011 12:51:48 PM

Marin 11-05-2011 11:58 AM

Insurance - Newbie question
 
Quote:

CPseudonym wrote:
*Are the survey requirements similar to what I would get in a pre-purchase survey? Would it include hauling the boat and inspecting the bottom too?

No to part one, yes to part two.* Usually.

The insurance companies want "a survey."* We generally have to do it every five years or so.* It needs to be done by an acredited surveyor.* How thorough it is is between you and the surveyor.* Some surveyors, like the one we have been using, offers an "insurance" survey.* It's not that it isn't relatively thorough, but he only writes up stuff that could put the safety or integrity of the boat at risk.* It costs less than a "buyer's survey."


-- Edited by Marin on Saturday 5th of November 2011 12:59:08 PM

CPseudonym 11-05-2011 12:00 PM

RE: Insurance - Newbie question
 
I was referring to general insurance surveys in a generic form. Not brand specific. Trying to figure out the extent of what is involved in all aspects of my new chosen hobby/lifestyle. If out of water surveys are required for insurance purposes, is it typical to combine it with an annual maintenance haul-out?

If I am not being clear enough it is most likely my inner newbie shining through. Thank you for the response. Each one is filling in the missing pieces of the puzzle for me.

Marin 11-05-2011 12:25 PM

RE: Insurance - Newbie question
 
Quote:

CPseudonym wrote:
If out of water surveys are required for insurance purposes, is it typical to combine it with an annual maintenance haul-out?



*It will depend on when the insurance company requires a survey.* You generally have a pretty small window to get it done.* By such-and-such a date is the usual requirement.* If this happens to fall near your normal haul-out, bottom-paint interval, great, you can do both at the same time.

But it doesn't always work out this way.* We normally haul and paint every two years.* My work schedule has forced me to cancel haulouts several times over the last couple of years so we're getting close to two years overdue.* But the last time we had to have an insurance survey, it had to done about a year after our previous haul and paint (at which time we did a bunch of other stuff like props,* a new shaft, etc.).* So it was pointless to paint the bottom only a year after we'd painted it.*

So we did a "hang in the slings" haulout for the insurance survey.* We made an appointment with the yard and the surveyor, the boat was hauled and the surveyor did his bottom and running gear inspection while the boat hung in the Travelift.* When he was done, they put the boat back in the water and we returned it to its slip.* The surveyor came down later in the week and did the rest of the survey at the slip.* This was considerably less expensive than hauling the boat and having it blocked and braced.

Edelweiss 11-05-2011 12:46 PM

Insurance - Newbie question
 
Quote:

CPseudonym wrote:
I was referring to general insurance surveys in a generic form. Not brand specific. Trying to figure out the extent of what is involved in all aspects of my new chosen hobby/lifestyle. If out of water surveys are required for insurance purposes, is it typical to combine it with an annual maintenance haul-out?

If I am not being clear enough it is most likely my inner newbie shining through. Thank you for the response. Each one is filling in the missing pieces of the puzzle for me.
No problem,*There are no dumb questions here.**We all started there at some point and you learn by asking.

I don't do annual haul outs, they are not really necessary here in the PNW. *I have a diver on retainer, who replaces the shaft and rudder zinks as needed (usually once a year). *He also checks for anything unusual during the year and removes the errant rope and string that gets sucked up by the props. *I usually haul-out every 4 years and have gone as long as 7. *

If your insurance company wants a survey, they will usually allow you to schedule it along with a maintenance haul out, as I did in 2003. *If you combine it with your scheduled haul-out it will save you a few bucks.

Ask some of the other boaters, with simular boats ,in your marina how often they haul out and that will give you an idea how long you should go between haul outs in your area. *

But don't forget to have your zink checked in between though. *Really important!!!

Larry B

*


-- Edited by Edelweiss on Saturday 5th of November 2011 01:55:09 PM

Steve 11-05-2011 04:08 PM

RE: Insurance - Newbie question
 
I believe MTOA has an insurance program for members I dont know what the rates or coverage is like.
Steve W.

Adelaide 11-06-2011 09:41 AM

Insurance - Newbie question
 
I used Progressive due to the fact that they didn't require a survey and gave me an "agreed value". I also liked the fact that you can do it all on line and add/subtract certain coverages (example; Boat Towing) to see different total premiums.

Geico also allows you to mix and match online (without survey), but they don't have an "agreed value" option..... so, if you have a newer boat, or need liability only, Geico would be a good one to look at.


-- Edited by Adelaide on Sunday 6th of November 2011 10:46:06 AM

Edelweiss 11-06-2011 11:13 AM

Insurance - Newbie question
 
These are all good points. *But while looking at different policies, I also became aware of these limitations and exclusions too:
<ul>[*]Watch for cruising area coverage, some are quite restrictive. *Boat US restricted me to all of Puget Sound, West through the Straits, and to the North end of Vancouver Island, going up to Alaska, which covers 99.9% of my normal cruising area. *But I was happy to learn in a 5 minute call to their 800 number, I was given a 30 day rider extending my cruise range to Juneau, AK. Over the phone, no charge.[*]The difference between "agreed value" and "stated value" (or whatever they decide to call it). In the case of total loss, agreed value is what they will pay you (more or less). *Stated value is what they say the boat was worth minus depreciation based on age and current value. *So with this type of a policy, your $3.1 million 60' Nordhavn three years later at the time of loss, might only be worth $1.8 million. Yikes!![*]Even with "Stated Value" insurance, (the more or less part) watch for a statement that the cost of recovery or salvage is included or deducted from the Stated Value. *It means what it says. *You may end up with nothing!![*]Be willing to accept a higher deductable. *Are you really going to claim that 5 year old $300 dollar TV set stolen from your boat? They're going to get it back from you in higher premiums anyway. A $500 or $1000 deductable will return the cost of that TV every year.[*]For Mexico, the Mexican government doesn't recognize US written liability insurance, boat, car or plane. *Yes your insurance company may write you a policy that includes mexico. But in the event of an incident, don't be surprised if they chain your boat to the dock or seize your boat outright until your US company pays up. *A good insurance company will tell you that up front and will either refer you to a reputable Mexican Insurance company or have a Mexican Insurance partner write your liability policy. * **[/list]
-- Edited by Edelweiss on Sunday 6th of November 2011 02:57:55 PM

CPseudonym 11-06-2011 01:37 PM

RE: Insurance - Newbie question
 
Great information. I have always considered myself fairly well versed as a consumer of Auto Home and Life policies. I can see now that the boat policy will be a different and unique animal. I really enjoy new and unique.


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