Potential livabord?

[Grandbanks3642]

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/d/bellevue-chb-trawler-in-good-condition/6923027803.html

Hi, I am really liking this boat(especially the price!) I think CHBs are quality boats. It is just me so I think this would be a right amount of space for a livabord. Anyone have experience with chb maintenance and common problems or living aboard one of these boats?
Thanks!

 

[janice142]

Opinion: she looks nice.
Experience: A friend bought an older boat that was stored inside (undercover)

He was thrilled with how immaculate the vessel was. No leaks, perfection, etc. Then he brought it out and into a "regular" slip at a different marina. It rained. Many unknown leaks appeared.

I'm in Florida, so our sun is intense. I would personally be afraid of any teak decks or extensive exterior wood. Your own surveyor can discover issues that might not be apparent.

I did a preliminary look with a friend who was looking for his latest boat a couple years back. Removing the drawers allowed visuals for the inner hull. There were stains down the inside of the hull, completely invisible unless you actually look back there.

Buy your own POWERFUL flashlight. I recommend the 1500 lumens ($60 at Walmart) rechargeable with lithium batteries. Mine charges off a USB port incidentally.

This thing can pick up markers super far away. It also spotted a cracked stringer in a 34'er I was checking. THat boat was for sale for $30k. We/he declined. Next marked sold pending survey. Shortly thereafter listed at $10k.

A flashlight can be a powerful tool in really lighting up he boat.

Just check for yourself. If possible have another boating friend go with you to examine this boat. Two sets of eyes are better than one.

And she does have some nice features. Looks livable. Good luck.

Also, since I'm rather prejudiced against teak/exterior wood, you would be well served to have someone without preconceived notions regarding exterior wood as your surveyor. Just as you wouldn't hire a wood-boat expert to survey a steel vessel, picking the right Professional surveyor is important too.

I'll hush now. J.

 

[Lepke]

It has a diesel stove that will make the boat more comfortable in the winter. If you add a water coil and some plumbing, you can transfer some of the heat elsewhere or heat your water.
It is illegal to discharge a marine toilet in inland waters and Washington State was talking about a no discharge zone that encompasses Puget Sound out past Admiralty Inlet. That means a holding tank and pump outs or another type of toilet. Grey water (shower, sink, etc.) may be an issue, too.

 

[psneeld]

Not sure about CHB being "quality" boats....used to think the same about Albins till I owned and tore apart one.....


The more I see about the typical Taiwan boat....all I can say is if in great shape it's functional, but not sure I would call them quality unless it was a custom, not production build.


Hence the low price.


But again that doesn't mean it can't be a good boat for someone to live on....for me after 8 years of living aboard, with someone for part of the time, a 34'er might be tight.

 

[alormaria]

She looks like Angelina's twin sister. Looks in good cosmetic shape. Be aware that "queen" berth is much smaller than it appears in pictures. The other berths are coffin sized.

Teak decks are gone as noted in the survey.

These boats are physically smaller than they appear in photos. You need to go and look at it in person to determine if it's a good fit for you.

Check the fuel tanks for replacement or leaks. Most CHBs of that vintage have new fuel tanks or will need them.
I've had my 1976/77 for 26 years and she still turns heads.

Good luck with it.

 

[DavidM]

I helped a good friend maintain a now 45 year old CHB 45 trawler for the last ten years, so I have a pretty good idea of the issues. Most maybe all of these are endemic to all "Taiwan Tubs" built in this era.

First of all joiner work, ie cabinetry is usually superb on those boats. Joiner work is labor intensive and requires skilled craftsmen. Taiwanese craftsmen of that era were great.

What is not so great is water integrity and systems installation. They were all built with wooden frame windows that ultimately leak and then stain and finally rot the interior teak plywood. Old and worn teak decks leak past their multitudinous screws into the core and then start to rot it. Deck fills leak rainwater past their unsealed tops and run down the tanks and rust them out- from the outside.

Engines were typically installed well and usually have no issues with exhaust geometry. Other systems: navigation systems, A/Cs, gensets were often installed state side and are generally good.

Your boat doesn't have the teak deck problem, but I will bet it has problems with windows leaking and maybe rusted tanks. All of that joiner work looked nice 45 years ago but may need a complete refinishing to bring it back to original condition.

Systems may work now but a 45 year old boat will require much more to maintain them than a newer one.

But given the price you could just live with most of these issues, use it for a few years and then sell it for less than you paid but you didn't pay that much. That is essentially what my friend did.

David

 

[psneeld]

I bought mine as a total throwaway even though I rebuilt a lot of it and have $30,000 in upgrades or major repairs so far.


But I figure after 10-15 years of living aboard, even if I hire a backhoe and a dumpster ...I still came out ahead.

 

[Portage_Bay]

I've learned the hard way that a low price needs to be taken as a huge red flag.

Before you commit to purchasing an older Taiwanese Trawler have a read of the attached PDF. "Venerable Taiwan Trawlers" from Passage Maker mag Aug 1998. Then consider engaging the surveyor mentioned in the article. A solid Taiwanese trawler well maintained can be a great deal. Just be careful.

What Janice said, take a boat out from under cover and be prepared for leaks, lots and lots of leaks.

Another mentioned no teak decks. That to me is another red flag. Almost all of these boats were built with teak decks. If the teak is gone what's the reason?

 

[psneeld]

No teak decks means the owner recognized a using battle when they saw it.


One great example of why many of these boats were built to substandard engineering/naval architecture standards.


Another small note many TF contributers may not know, just because a deck or cabin side is saturated, doesn't mean rot has won. I had many wet areas, but the teak plywood in the construction that was still solid. Once dried out and reglued to the fiberglass skin, it will last another 30 years.


The gross generalizations by forum contributers who read articles and pass along dock talk but who do not tear apart and reconstruct should be only given their due.


No one holds all the answers, but there are gross levels of experience. Look back through threads with pictures of massive reconstruction. Those posters can't know all the answers, but they probably have more than one who doesn't or never have owned a similar boat.

 

[Portage_Bay]

psneeld I generally avoid engaging in a back and forth on this forum. But if this comment was regarding my post.....

The gross generalizations by forum contributers who read articles and pass along dock talk but who do not tear apart and reconstruct should be only given their due.

please read the article then research the surveyor mentioned. It's not dock talk. I'm aware you're located on the east coast, however Matt Harris, the surveyor in the article is recognized as an expert on the west coast in that era Taiwanese trawlers. As for my experience, no I've not rebuilt a wet delaminated Taiwanese boat, I have had a close association with one of Seattle's premier repair yards and witnessed everything from a simple leak patch up to a full rip out of decks or tear down of house and cabin tops. In the PNW it all depends on how long the leaks have gone on, wood indeed is slower to rot here than in warmer climates.

 

[psneeld]

Simple, your last sentence about teak decks.


We know the reasons why some people repair and some people tear out the teak decks. Leaks.
But what a LOT of surveyor's don't know, even "so called experts" ....until you know what is under the deck or how it's constructed ...they can't possibly know. Models built within the same year are built differently.


All I am saying....the bad construction and varying building techniques on Taiwan Trawlers is a chapter in boatbuilding history into it's own



Read the article? I used to.... till I got into the marine business and figured out how bad many "published" experts were. How and where they got their info while behind keyboards became very evident.


But for the sake of argument, I reread the article (it's been inked many times through the years). Its full of truths and errors...much like what I have had to say through the years. Not sure how it makes a point or not. It reinforces my statements how you are never quite sure what you are getting in a Taiwan Trawler and behooves one to look at problems for what they are, not what some couple boat, weekend warrior boater says or even an "expert" surveyor as they rarely do destructive testing....it requires more than just reading someones post or even survey whomever they are.



Go read Steve D's opinion on the marine industries view on blisters, then I will find experts that disagree with him on other topics. Using the world "expert" is a dangerous thing in today's world of info. I can go to my doctor and be better informed about certain diseases and drugs because we are bombarded with info. Doesn't make him less smart or valuable....just that he isn't the last word on what I should do....and it's more than true in boating.

 

[Donsan]

Our previously owned Taiwanese Tub was built by the same boat group. In addition to old fuel tanks, leaky windows and water intrusion, pay attention to the antiquated electrical wiring and expect to find a lot of unused wire going to nowhere and amatuerish electrical connections from previous owners. Most of the TTs should have all new wiring but few do.

Found no mention of a generator. It may need one or worse, it may have one that's seen the ghost.

No pics and little mention of engine room. More than a few are cesspools in the bilge. A strong smell of diesel in the engine room should be a giveaway on fuel tank issues.

Not a "so called expert", just a previous owner.