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-   -   Systems monitoring-needed or overkill (http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/systems-monitoring-needed-overkill-43070.html)

Corky Row 02-13-2019 07:04 PM

Systems monitoring-needed or overkill
 
I am in the build process for an Endurance 658 which is scheduled to ship in June and now am trying to decide what type of boat monitoring systems I should select. I have Garmin 8600 for boat electronics and Cat monitors for engines and believe I have what those areas covered. Now I am looking at three areas for monitoring/instrumentation:

1. tankage monitoring for fuel, water and black water as I do not like the wema system provided by Hampton

2. the boat will spend long periods(winter) in PNW without anyone on board/using boat so I want to monitor incoming power, bilge pump operation, battery state-house/engine/gen,

3. security-primarily doors opening. I also have 5 Garmin cameras with 2 in engine room, 2 in cockpit area and 1 on fly bridge and wouldn't mind having input from them

Now the big question. Am I over paranoid because its a new boat? I have had 3 previous boats over the last 20 years without any of these type of systems and have only had one incident where someone unplugged my shore power cord which resulted in dead house batteries (as i had left the inverter on) and a smelly refrig. So do I really need the boat system monitoring and security?

I have looked at the Maretron system in some detail and its seems like they are the master of all systems but I heard there are a lot of maintenance/operational issues.

What have other owners done for these types of systems and are there other areas I should monitor

BIG CAT 02-13-2019 07:22 PM

What are you using for the engine? Regular mpd? Cat has a upgrade to automasking that is expandable and is an open ip for programming and are pretty flexible on the I/o side. Downside is the cost if you buy through cat. I would but directly from automasking. Then you can get all the extras for a good bit cheaper. The thing I like is you can do custom gauges and have the ability to do high/low alarms and safeties.

tiltrider1 02-14-2019 12:18 AM

Yes you are being parinoid. Still, better safe than sorry.

FF 02-14-2019 06:06 AM

If the boat will be cruised ,
The most common hassle is a watch stander that has no idea what the engine gauges mean , or when to call the captain.

Does the new electric controlled engines include an alarm system?

Is your new inverter too dumb to take itself off line when nearing killing the batteries?

twistedtree 02-14-2019 06:50 AM

I really like having accurate, calibrated tank levels, so would definitely do that. One of the Maretron devices can piggy back on the standard Wema gauge/sender, so that's an option if you want to retain the Wema senders. For black and gray water, the ONLY sensing system I would recommend is Maretron's submersible pressure sensor. It works really well, is accurate, and resistant to fouling.


For away monitoring, I agree that the most important thing is to monitor incoming power. Most Maretron people will want to put an ACM100 on the power line, and maybe multiple units in different places. That will give the most info, but for away alarming I think all you really need to know is whether it's present or not, and that can be done with a much less expensive RIM100. It's one of my favorite devices because it's inexpensive, and has 6 channels so you can monitor a bunch of things without getting fancy. One channel could sense shore power, one or more (depends on number of bilges) could sense bilge pump operation, and maybe one connected to a low temp sensor if you will leave heat on and want to know if freezing is a risk. Maybe an alarm on your inverter output just in case that craps out, assuming it would cause a stinky fridge & freezer as well.



With any sort of remote monitoring, internet connectivity is essential, so be sure you have a good solution for that, and devices that will run indefinitely without requiring restarts. With consumer networking gear it's a crap shoot how long they can run without human intervention.


Once you have internet for the boat, Maretron can do a ton of alarming just using the boat's internet. I would not get their SIM texting device. It's just another sim card and service plan to keep track of, sort out international operation, etc, etc,.


The Maretron stuff can be very fussy to get set up and configured. But once done, it's pretty stable.

Codger2 02-14-2019 10:21 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Corky Row (Post 740712)
I have looked at the Maretron system in some detail and its seems like they are the master of all systems but I heard there are a lot of maintenance/operational issues.


What have other owners done for these types of systems and are there other areas I should monitor

I have a Maretron system on my boat and It's the best instrumentation on the boat. At present, I only have fuel management and electrical info but since I have the DSM150 (now upgraded to the DSM 410) there is no end as to other systems that I may desire in the future. Also, my Raymarine eS128 monitors a lot of the data. (All the Maretron data is shown on their DSM 410, a separate monitor.) My boat is only 42' (by choice) but it has the electronic abilities of a much larger vessel.

BTW, the Maretron was installed 2 years ago and has been trouble free!

https://www.maretron.com/products/dsm410.php

AdmiralS 02-14-2019 10:49 AM

Im a big fan of the Siren Marine system. It has a built in cellular modem so you can monitor and get alerted when away from the boat. Some will complain about the annual subscription, but in boat bucks $200 a year seems more than reasonable for the peace of mind for remote monitoring....

https://sirenmarine.com/

Ka_sea_ta 02-14-2019 12:09 PM

For simple remote monitoring of shore power, 2 Battery banks, bilge pump activity. intrusion including occupancy, the ability to remotely control 3 functions (this is simply closing relay contacts) , geo fencing, ease on installation and cost. Boat command works well. The basic annual subscription cost is $80 it uses the cellular network. Figure less then $400 for hardware.

caltexflanc 02-14-2019 05:21 PM

For your freshwater system, get a Watercounter. One of the very best upgrades we ever made. And we made more than a few.

WaterCounter | The World's best potable water management system for boats and RVs

As for other monitoring, I have no direct experience with the Maretron system, but have seen and researched the Chetco suite pretty closely and really like it. Worth giving them a call, they are good guys.

http://www.digitalmarinegauges.com/

Corky Row 02-14-2019 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FF (Post 740867)
If the boat will be cruised ,
The most common hassle is a watch stander that has no idea what the engine gauges mean , or when to call the captain.

Does the new electric controlled engines include an alarm system?

Is your new inverter too dumb to take itself off line when nearing killing the batteries?

The engines are Cats and I have their instrumentation package which includes alarms. Inverter worked fine, but low shut off setting was lower (11amps) than I knew, so batteries took deep discharge but came back after power restored.

Corky Row 02-14-2019 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Codger2 (Post 740936)
I have a Maretron system on my boat and It's the best instrumentation on the boat. At present, I only have fuel management and electrical info but since I have the DSM150 (now upgraded to the DSM 410) there is no end as to other systems that I may desire in the future. Also, my Raymarine eS128 monitors a lot of the data. (All the Maretron data is shown on their DSM 410, a separate monitor.) My boat is only 42' (by choice) but it has the electronic abilities of a much larger vessel.

BTW, the Maretron was installed 2 years ago and has been trouble free!

https://www.maretron.com/products/dsm410.php

Thanks for the info. Good to hear Maretron is working well. I will dig into this system further.

Corky Row 02-14-2019 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdmiralS (Post 740950)
Im a big fan of the Siren Marine system. It has a built in cellular modem so you can monitor and get alerted when away from the boat. Some will complain about the annual subscription, but in boat bucks $200 a year seems more than reasonable for the peace of mind for remote monitoring....

https://sirenmarine.com/

Does this system require internet connection or something different. Any connectivity issues?

AdmiralS 02-14-2019 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corky Row (Post 741135)
Does this system require internet connection or something different. Any connectivity issues?

It maintains it's own cellular internet connection. You do not need to have another internet connection like wifi for it to connect to.

The cellular connection is covered as part of the $180 12 month subscription. $125 for a seasonal

Bigsfish 02-14-2019 10:05 PM

A other vote for Maretron. Changed two sensors tothe new type and works great.

Wxx3 02-14-2019 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistedtree (Post 740876)
I really like having accurate, calibrated tank levels, so would definitely do that. One of the Maretron devices can piggy back on the standard Wema gauge/sender, so that's an option if you want to retain the Wema senders. For black and gray water, the ONLY sensing system I would recommend is Maretron's submersible pressure sensor. It works really well, is accurate, and resistant to fouling.

For away monitoring, I agree that the most important thing is to monitor incoming power. Most Maretron people will want to put an ACM100 on the power line, and maybe multiple units in different places. That will give the most info, but for away alarming I think all you really need to know is whether it's present or not, and that can be done with a much less expensive RIM100. It's one of my favorite devices because it's inexpensive, and has 6 channels so you can monitor a bunch of things without getting fancy. One channel could sense shore power, one or more (depends on number of bilges) could sense bilge pump operation, and maybe one connected to a low temp sensor if you will leave heat on and want to know if freezing is a risk. Maybe an alarm on your inverter output just in case that craps out, assuming it would cause a stinky fridge & freezer as well.

With any sort of remote monitoring, internet connectivity is essential, so be sure you have a good solution for that, and devices that will run indefinitely without requiring restarts. With consumer networking gear it's a crap shoot how long they can run without human intervention.

Once you have internet for the boat, Maretron can do a ton of alarming just using the boat's internet. I would not get their SIM texting device. It's just another sim card and service plan to keep track of, sort out international operation, etc, etc,.

The Maretron stuff can be very fussy to get set up and configured. But once done, it's pretty stable.

What he said, again.

Once you have internet aboard, you can run N2K View anywhere.
If i had a new build, I'd certainly Maretron everything.

I've managed to get by without MFD , but setup using their virtual viewer, works for almost everything except i've never been able to calibrate my speed thru water.

EngNate 02-15-2019 12:31 AM

All N2K. I've done quite a bit of Maretron. Installed according to spec, its trouble free, and very versatile. I'm gonna say in 99% of cases troubles are caused by installation defects or failure to follow the installation design rules. Not fully understanding the configuration details also can lead to some mystery problems. Maretron tech support is very good. Whatever the brand of sensors, displays, modules you end up selecting, have the N2K network backbone designed and installed - and documented, to cover the boat from end to end. A lot can be done with this in the future. One glitch, though, images cannot be sent over N2K, that still requires a wire to each device, video & power, or ethernet. I haven't done anything with viewing camera images remotely and don't know if that's in the Maretron product line or not.

FF 02-15-2019 06:23 AM

"low shut off setting was lower (11amps) than I knew, so batteries took deep discharge"


Most inverters will cut them selves off on voltage , not amps .

Corky Row 02-15-2019 05:19 PM

your right. should have said 11 volts. thanks for correction

Corky Row 02-15-2019 05:27 PM

EngNat-thanks for the input. Factory is willing to put backbone and drops in place and committed to document. I will start working on video but early indication is that Maretron is capable of doing this, I just need to find the right equipment. I have about 2 more weeks to make final decision and then floors/walls/ceilings start to get closed up.

bridaus 02-15-2019 07:22 PM

As an IT guy and ex-engineer, Maretron does it for me. I'm only drooling at the moment, but its in the budget. Got to fix some more basic stuff first but oops might have to drag a backbone the same time as another cable.


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