Pros and cons of a diesel cook stove?

[Badger]

What are the pluses and minus of a diesel cookstove?

 

[FF]

The big plus is the cool cold season.

Cool water cruising to winter live aboard HEAT is a delight to have.

Also great is HEAT with no electric draw , so a week on the hook , when its cold out and you OWN the area is also great!

Downside is mid summer when all you want is a cup of coffee.

For most folks a small camping 2 burner propane stove on top of the range solves the problem.

In NYC (22+years living aboard) the water warms up very slowly , so even in late April it may be 65 in daytime and 50 at night , the water temp.

The heat stays ON and closing a hatch is all that is required to be comfortable.

Also there is almost nothing to brake or have to repair.

Take a look at an Espar or Webasto truck heaters , and decide how much you will enjoy trouble shooting and importing repair parts some cold night.

IF a cruising boat is small enough to be heated by a range and perhaps a small second unit , to me its the ONLY choice.

 

[Shoalwaters]

I remember from my sailing days in the UK that diesel stoves took a long time to light, thus inconvenient for a quick "cuppa". Kerosene cooking stoves were quicker to start and quite common - basically a kerosene camping stove with a remote pressure tank. I had a Taylor's diesel stove on my sailboat back in the late 70's - a PITA to start, but then burned diesel with a blue flame.

 

[Larry M]

I use to fish on*boat that had a diesel stove and as FF says the heat was nice.* The top of the boat deck was always dirty though from the the flue.* It looked the stove.oven ran*clean but in the winter, with the rain, there was always some soot and black streaks.***

All diesel stoves have to vented over the side even the new Wallas stoves so mounting can be an issue.

Why a diesel stove?

 

[skipperdude]

I have a Dickinson Bristol and I love it.

A little fiddley to light but once it gets going the dry heat is perfect. Cozy and warm. Of course I live in Alaska. Warm is good

The only issue is lack of circulation. I need a fan to move the air around, as when it is below zero the floor never quite gets warm.

I have*also installed an Espar D5 forced air. Now I heat mostly with the Dickenson and supplement with the Espar.

What I like most about it is the lack of technology. I use a gravity feed so no pumps or pressure the fuel just trickles in. You have to adjust it to the type of fuel you burn #1 or #2. Once adjusted the thing really cooks.

I get more soot from the dry stack on my cat 3208 than the stove puts out so not an issue.

SD

**

 

[bobc]

Larry M wrote:
I use to fish on*boat that had a diesel stove and as FF says the heat was nice.* The top of the boat deck was always dirty though from the the flue.* It looked the stove.oven ran*clean but in the winter, with the rain, there was always some soot and black streaks.***

All diesel stoves have to vented over the side even the new Wallas stoves so mounting can be an issue.

Why a diesel stove?

I had a big cast iron stove on my 1951 Stephens, and you're right, it was always getting things dirty.* It took forever to heat up, and put a lot of heat into the cabin, even when you didn't want it -- like in summer.* It was indestructable though.

My sailboat had the Wallace stove.* It wasn't that fast at heating up, and the blower lid used to turn the stove into a heater was too noisy, so I only used it to take the chill off in the morning.* The stove was very sensitive to battery voltage and sometimes wouldn't start.* It would then have to go through a long cool-down cycle before it would allow you to restart it.* My biggest problem with Wallace is the dealer.* There's only one, Scanmarine, and we didn't get along.* It cost me over $800 for service, and I just took it in for a cleaning.* They wanted to replace every part and told me that I should expect to pay 10% of the cost of the stove in maintenance every year.

 

[Badger]

Why a diesel? We are thinking of having a boat built and we don't plan on a genset for an electric and to avoid the added complexity of propane. Plus it would be nice to have a dry heat vs a moisture laden propane oven

 

[FF]

"avoid the added complexity of propane. Plus it would be nice to have a dry heat vs a moisture laden propane oven'

Quite correct that an unvented propane anything adds loads of water to the air.

But venting a range with a hood is hardly a big challenge.

We use double gymboled Kero Primus on our 90/90 and a vented* range hood there is a delight in summer , where any heat is best vented.

Unfortunatly it does require 1/4amp of 12V , to operate .

By "avoiding" propane you are perhaps avoiding the easiest and best method of having a reefer on a cruiser.

Propane , a 20lb bottle can run a full sized fridge/freezer for over a month , SILENTLY!!! and cheaply.

The challenge is usually retrofitting a great system into a boat made for house stuff, that has no venting.

With a clean sheet it is easy to create a safe , silent reefer setup that works well.

*

IF you have room 4 or 6 pannels ,, 85W solar will operate an alternate energy fridge (NOT House or RV) IF there are enough batteries.* But what to do for a rainy week remains a question.


-- Edited by FF on Thursday 15th of September 2011 05:06:28 AM

 

[Nomad Willy]

Willy that's basically where we are. Wanted the Dickinson but knew it would put out too much heat most of the time. Chris really loves the new propane cooking stove/oven. We have Wabasto air heat. Like the thermostat control for overnight and during the day we set it and basically forget we have heat. It's just the right temperature all the time except when we step out on deck and think Hmmm that's right we've got the heat on. Don't think I can improve on that except the Wabasto seems to loose it's prime and needs to be primed (push a button on the control box) after it's sat for two weeks or so. Once it's going again it cycles and otherwise works flawlessly. I still have'nt installed my Sigmar bulkhead diesel heater. Want 3 sources of heat here in Alaska.

 

[Peter B]

I don't think I would ever want anything but propane for cooking, but I must say for heating, which we don't need in our part of the world, I was most impressed with the modest diesel furnace they had set up in the narrow canal boat we hired and enjoyed a week in in the UK in May. The mornings were still quite fresh, to say the least, and it was neat to be able to just ease out of the bunk, pull on a throttle shaped lever on the rear bulkhead, wait until one heard a hissing, furnace type noise, then head back to the sack. In no time water-filled radiators throughout the vessel were warming, and it heated the domestic water as well, in addition to the engine heat exchanger on the move. Great set-up. But even on that boat, cooking was by nice modern propane 4 ring stove/oven.

 

[FF]

But even on that boat, cooking was by nice modern propane 4 ring stove/oven.

Sure but they called it the HOB!

 

[Peter B]

FF wrote:
But even on that boat, cooking was by nice modern propane 4 ring stove/oven.

Sure but they called it the HOB!

*No, never heard that word used the whole 6 weeks we were in the UK - I think they've moved on a bit.* TV, the universal educator I guess.* Had someone over here the other day bitching about how the US was ruining our language and since when did we call tomato sauce, ketchup...?* Get over it I say....


-- Edited by Peter B on Saturday 17th of September 2011 12:42:53 AM

 

[Edelweiss]

Peter B wrote:

FF wrote:
But even on that boat, cooking was by nice modern propane 4 ring stove/oven.

Sure but they called it the HOB!

*No, never heard that word used the whole 6 weeks we were in the UK - I think they've moved on a bit.* TV, the universal educator I guess.* Had someone over here the other day bitching about how the US was ruining our language and since when did we call tomato sauce, ketchup...?* Get over it I say....


-- Edited by Peter B on Saturday 17th of September 2011 12:42:53 AM




Peter

I'm LMAO!! Last fall, I was in Lagos, Portugal for three week and found a family run small cafe that had an excellent lunch, so I ate there nearly every day. Each day the owner would proudly set a bottle of ketchup on my table, which I didn't touch. One day he asked me why I didn't like their ketchup? I said I hadn't tried it yet. He said, I thought Americans ate ketchup on everything? I asked him why he thought that? Apparently, they get a lot of American programing on TV!

TV the great educator!!!
:biggrin:

I guess

 

[Peter B]

Yes, clearly a certain amount of internal mental and auditory processing needs to be done - a wordy way of saying taking some things "with a grain of salt". Otherwise we might have all ended up thinking the average US male was a mix of Archie Bunker, Homer Simpson, Seinfeld, and Ben Stiller. Of course it cuts both ways, and we are not all croc wrestling, macho males, flashing "real knives", and even the bit of essential Aussie education Hoges gave you all about throwing shrimps on barbies contained a small but important error, in that we call them prawns....so there yuh go...
None of which as a darned thing to do with "other trawler systems", sorry....but a laugh is always good, and things have got a bit too politically heated lately on OTDE, and not being hugely au fait with US politics I feel a bit out of it over there.

 

[markpierce]

One of the American products frequently seen in European grocery stores is Heinz ketchup.

 

[Edelweiss]

and even the bit of essential Aussie education Hoges gave you all about throwing shrimps on barbies contained a small but important error, in that we call them prawns.......................

-------------

Yes. . . Some tense personalities here and there.

Ps: We call them prawns too. Shrimp would fall through the grate and end up on the fire!**

-- Edited by Edelweiss on Sunday 18th of September 2011 06:35:45 PM

 

[Badger]

The only downside I can see to the diesel cook stove is still needing a separate way to heat hot water. We could use a coil on the stove, but that would men heating up the cabin trying to make hot water for a shower.

So it still looks like three systems, cookstove, main engine and probably an ITR combi heater for hot water, heat and engine preheat.

Howard

 

[Edelweiss]

markpierce wrote:
One of the American products frequently seen in European grocery stores is Heinz ketchup.

Recovering from stomach flu, I spent several days in bed watching info-mercials on TV, anything to pass the time. *One of the shows that was at least somewhat interesting was a history of Heinz Corp. *Did you know they have been a world producer since the early 1900's and produce over 5700 different products. *Many of those products we don't have here in the states and wouldn't recognize? *One of the exceptions is Heinz ketchup, which is bottled and marketed throughout the world under that name.

Damn. . . I'll bet you always wanted to know that? * *

 

[Badger]

One more follow up question:

*

Using a diesel stove for cooking and heat sounds great.* What do we do for hot water?* I don't want to "cook" ourselves out in the summer trying to take a shower...and I am trying to simplify systems to the extreme..

 

[Tony B]

Badger wrote:
*What do we do for hot water?* I don't want to "cook" ourselves out in the summer trying to take a shower...

*What I have done on long trips for showering is quite simple.******************************** Heat up a gal or so of hot water and add a few drops of Ivory Liquid or some other gentle dish washing soap. Mix it up and put it in*a 1 or 2 gal. bug sprayer.*Pump it up and spray to your hearts content. When the gal of soapy water is used up add some*fresh hot water to the sprayer but this time use only clean water with no soap and rinse yourself off.

This comes in handy when traveling and you want to 'meter' your water useage. Just figure on 2 gals / shower. I have only done this when on the go. I don't see why you couldnt do it at the dock.

 

[Peter B]

Well, coming back on topic, if I lived and boated in a region which gets cold enough to need boat space heating, you couldn't do better than to set up one of those diesel furnaces which heat the domestic water, in addition to the engine heat exchanger, as well as circulating heated water in a sort of closed circuit radiator set-up. The latter can easily be tuned off in warmer weather. This set-up worked a treat in the canal boat we hired in the UK, as mentioned. However, I doubt I would want to use diesel to cook with - propane better there in my view - with sensible precautions re installation of course. That is definitely a system you would get professionally installed. You need to to get the gas certificate which I think all countries require...?

 

[FF]

you couldn't do better than to set up one of those diesel furnaces which heat the domestic water, in addition to the engine heat exchanger, as well as circulating heated water in a sort of closed circuit radiator set-up.

Yes but ,,, some units are supplied with a copper heating coil some with SS.

The copper does not like to be empty when the fire is on.

 

[FF]

"But I am interested in the on demand water heating systems ?"


The problem with the on demand setups is turning on and off the water in the shower turns the unit off and on.

Maintaining a constant temperature is very hard, if you try to save water.

My "solution" is to install a home tub / shower style controll head.

Turn from Shower to tub (the tub position being set to return the water to the FW tank).

Constant temp , at the cost of a bit of propane.

Have fun!


-- Edited by FF on Thursday 22nd of September 2011 04:45:40 AM

 

[dhmeissner]

So I am seriously considering ditching the propane and going with a Wallas or Dickinson. Are there any other players in the diesel stove market? I'd be interested in hearing more actual experiences with either of these (or similar) products.

Cheers

Sent from my iPad using Trawler

 

[ksanders]

So I am seriously considering ditching the propane and going with a Wallas or Dickinson. Are there any other players in the diesel stove market? I'd be interested in hearing more actual experiences with either of these (or similar) products.

Cheers

Sent from my iPad using Trawler

I have first hand experience with the wallas cook top.

I found it to be a great alternative to the alchohol stove it replaced. It is nice in that it doubles as a heater for cool weather use.

Very reliable, and quiet. The only draw back if it is one that it takes a few minutes to start up.

 

[C lectric]

We have and use our Pacific Dickinson diesel stove in the cooler seasons. Cooking needs to be adapted as the stove as a heater is sometimes a bit too cool to cook quickly or be able to deal with some things. In outright winter it is hot enough to do a good job. It's just the shoulder seasons where we don't run the stove really hot that it burns a bit on the cool side for cooking. If you are willing to adapt it will work though. Stews or similar in the oven are great.
We keep a kettle on top always and once boiling just move it off to one side on a trivet so it stays hot but no longer boiling yet quickly ready.

Temperature changes are NOT done quickly. The stove burner has a lot of metal to heat or allow to cool so you cannot use it like your home based stove.
If you want shower hot water depending upon the boat configuration you can use the hot water coil. We can't\don't as our h.w. tank is well below the stove and we never decided it was important enough to rig a pump.

We use a single burner Origo alcohol stove for the times in hot weather along with the barbeque for cooking.

The best setup , to me, would be a diesel heater [not a furnace], not necessarily the stove, with a propane cooking stove. That way you have the benefits of both. I know a few people who have exactly that and it works well for them.

Of course that means another fuel but they worked it out and it;s not a problem.

Would I get rid of my stove. NO! I almost did a long time ago untill I realized what it would take to replace it and came to my senses. I figured out how to make it reliable, helped by Dickinson. The problem wasn't the stoves fault but rather a poor installation.

Just a side note. If your diesel stove is sooting the upper deck you are not running it correctly or haven't got it setup properly. I went through that and also learned the fan needs to be run all the time on low.

With all heating and cooking systems there will be compromises. Battery power, fuels, convenience, mtce., repairs and breakdowns.

My wife and I like our Dickinson but it is not fool proof. It is however dead reliable and keeps the main living area warm. The v-berth though is cold as the heat doesn't go down. A friend with a Dickinson heater, not stove, used a small muffin fan to collect heat from the exhaust stack and blow it into the v berth. The heater was close enough to work and although not warm it's not cold either in the shoulder seasons..
Enough blather. good night.

 

[dhmeissner]

Thanks Kevin and C for your experiences. I will look closely at the options out there.

-d

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