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Crosby-dog 10-10-2018 06:07 PM

New member - boat suggestions for a current sailor
 
Hi all,

New member here and first post in this forum. My wife and I are pretty experienced sailors. We've been cruising the Northeast US for a few years on our older 42' sailboat.

I'm interested in potentially purchasing a trawler for cruising... and maybe even selling the sailboat.:eek: I don't know. I wanted to see if this forum might be able to point me towards models I should be researching and whether my expectations are realistic.

The following are my reasons for potentially making the switch:

- I want to increase the number of destinations we can get to from our home base in the Northeast in a week or two, so I would like something faster. I don't need to go 20+ knots, but being able to cruise at 8-10kts (our current cruise speed is around 6.5kts) and go 10-15kts when we want would be fantastic.

- Powerboat setups are just easier to live on and more comfortable underway, especially with our two medium-sized dogs.

Other wants:
- I really, really, really don't want to burn a ton of diesel, so the fuel efficiency of the motor setup is of prime concern for me. Long range would also be a big plus. The sailboat burns about 1 gph at cruise. I know that's not possible in a trawler, but that's where I'm coming from.

- I like the idea of two motors for safety, but like the idea of the efficiency of one. I love the Nordhavn dual motor setup, but probably can't afford one of those.

- I want to be able to do 125nm+ overnight ocean passages in the Northeast comfortably and not have to worry about whether the boat can take it. This is something I do on the sailboat and would not want to give that up. Assume reasonable prudence with the weather, of course.

- Let's cap the budget at $200k US.

- I'm not afraid of old boats, but would prefer something from the 1980's or newer.

Any suggestions really appreciated. Thanks so much.

RT Firefly 10-10-2018 06:21 PM

Greetings,
Welcome aboard. http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s...1-a-14905.html

Lepke 10-10-2018 07:31 PM

https://www.boats.com/boats-for-sale...th-desc&page=2
You won't get 1 gph in a trawler. Maybe idling at the dock.
In a big boat with twins I get about 1.2 kmpg @10 knots and about 1.75 kmpg @7 knots in the ocean in average swells.

djmarchand 10-10-2018 07:54 PM

I would run the numbers using the following two cases and see if you can live with case 1:


Case 1: Lepke's fuel burn at 10 kts as he indicates above.



Case 2: An efficient full displacement hull trawler like the Krogen 42, that will not go 10 kts. At a moderately high (1.2*sqrt(lwl)) cruising speed of 7.5 kts, the Krogen will burn about 2.5 gph. If not either stick with your sailboat or if you want a trawler look at the Krogen. FWIW there are relatively few full displacement trawlers available, but the Krogen is a great one and is close to your budget.



David

IRENE 10-10-2018 08:18 PM

Welcome aboard!

Take a look at the Mainship 40 from the early to mid 2000s. They are on the market at the top of your price range.

Things I like:

Galley up - enjoy your surroundings
Main interior space flows to aft covered deck
Safe design - stairs/bulwarks
Relatively efficient, can cruise slow with occasional speed when needed
No exterior wood
Available with single or twins
Nice flybridge with optional cooking area
Lower helm with side door for ease of mooring/inclement weather
Guest stateroom for storage or guests
Washer/dryer space if desired
Lazarette space

Good Luck

tiltrider1 10-10-2018 09:06 PM

Lepke & djmarchand have given you real world numbers. I would also like to point out, there is a world of difference between 7.5 kts and 10 kts when it comes to time. Time is money or in this case it takes money to save time. It’s a very hard adjustment to go from 6kts per gallon to 2kts per gallon or 1 kts per gallon for a 50’ liveaboard boat traveling at 10kts.

Comodave 10-10-2018 09:25 PM

Welcome aboard.

dhays 10-10-2018 09:47 PM

Welcome Crosby.

I went from a Catalina 400 to a North Pacific 43. My Catalina with an Autoprop would cruise about 6.5 knots at 3/4 gph. Less fuel burn if motorsailing.

In making the switch to the NP43 I gained about 1 knot in cruise speed at 2 gph. Iíve never looked back. I love the new boat. We sailed year round, but it is lot nicer in a warm pilot house sipping a hot cup of coffee.

You would not be happy with what I did. You want to be able to cover more ground in less time than your sailboat. To get this, you will need to either go MUCH bigger to get a longer waterline, or you will need to accept the high fuel burn of a planing or SD hull shape to get you into double digit boat speed. In either case, you will have significantly higher fuel costs.

I was really concerned about fuel burn when I started looking. Even though I am still a cheap SOB Sailor at heart, Iíve come to recognize that for my type of use, fuel costs are only a small part of my yearly cost of use. I still am frugal on the throttle, but I donít worry about it as much as I used to. Iím still not used to going to fuel docks as I typically would only do that once a year in my sailboat.

Iíll stay out of the twins/single debate, but I have a single with thrusters and am very happy.

One issue that does concern me is the long offshore passages. Trips that are not a big deal in your sailboat could be very unhappy experiences in a power boat unless it is designed for it and has stabilization. A sailboat is simply a better platform for dealing with moderate seas. In making the switch to power, you will need to alter your acquired weather sense. When you see a forecast or look out at the water, you will need to recalibrate what your go, no-go decisions. Iíve finally gotten much better at making that transition, but only after making a couple very big errors and once scaring the crap out of my wife while getting ourselves royally beat up. The boat was fine, it just wasnít any fun.

Anyway, you are looking for efficient, fast, seaworthy, and reasonably priced. I donít think you can get it all but good luck with the search. When you settle on something, I think you will be very happy.

Crosby-dog 10-11-2018 10:49 AM

Thank you guys for the real world numbers. Not surprised that just like in the world of sailboats, everything is a trade off.

Dhays - Thank you. You touch on something that I think is another major draw for me - a longer boating season. While I'm happy being cold and wet as long as I'm on a boat, my wife isn't very keen on it much after the first couple of weeks in October. I think being warm and snug sipping a hot cup of coffee in a pilothouse would get her out on cold fall and maybe even winter cruises.

I've got some things to think about. Thank all you again for the perspective.

dhays 10-11-2018 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crosby-dog (Post 705829)
Dhays - Thank you. You touch on something that I think is another major draw for me - a longer boating season. While I'm happy being cold and wet as long as I'm on a boat, my wife isn't very keen on it much after the first couple of weeks in October. I think being warm and snug sipping a hot cup of coffee in a pilothouse would get her out on cold fall and maybe even winter cruises.


It does make a huge difference. We had a number of winter trips where I would be out in the cockpit, huddled up under the dodger in sub-freezing weather with the auto-pilot remote in hand. My wife would be closed up in the cabin below taking a nap. Sure it was warm down there, but it wasnít exactly quality together time.

Shrew 10-11-2018 12:52 PM

Thread moved from the "Welcome Mat" to " General Discussion" sub-forums.

AusCan 10-11-2018 04:27 PM

There are going to be compromises; you just need to decide on which ones.

The boats which get reasonable efficiency and will be safe and comfortable offshore will be full displacement boats. But you have to give up the need for speed.

Perhaps consider a motorsailer. You get the comfort of a trawler with the efficiency and sea keeping ability of a sailboat.

Crosby-dog 10-11-2018 09:56 PM

Thanks AusCan. A motorsailor is a potential option, or just upgrading an enclosed pilothouse sailboat.

A new question - at what point is a trawler - say a Maineship 40 as was suggested or a Grand Banks 40-ish really no fun on a coastal ocean passage? We're not sailing to Bermuda, we're usually just hugging the coast a few miles out along Long Island or Jersey, but it can get big out there and that's what we do a lot.

The sailboat displaces 23,000 lbs and we are having fun in up to about 6'-7' ocean swell with a decent period of like 8-10 seconds. Tighter and bigger than that we start to wish we stayed in.

I realize this is a subjective question. I'm just looking for thoughts on how restricted would I'd be in doing coastal passages like that in a trawler like the ones suggested.


Thanks again.


Edit: I guess I'm looking for sort of the max "comfortable and safe" marine forecast for a coastal ocean passage on these boats.

markpierce 10-11-2018 10:19 PM

One can readily obtain a recreational trawler (by definition) consuming less than two GPH while proceeding at six to eight MPH depending on the hull.

Jeff F 10-12-2018 08:16 PM

What about something like this? No affiliation or direct knowledge of this boat, but it's the sort of boat I'd suggest.

https://www.novatrawler.com/35Tnovatrawler.html

What type of sailboat do you have?

SeaMoose 10-12-2018 08:31 PM

Welcome Aboard

I went from sail to power several years ago. This quote from a fellow ex Sailor sums it up for me:

ďItís more fun to get there in a sailboat, but once youíre there the trawler is a lot more funĒ

Running the same speed as the sailboat in any direction represents an increase in speed. As you speed up, comfort goes down. A few years ago I bought a cheap second ďbeater boatĒ with a big gas engine. To my surprise it beats the cr*p out of you at speed...

oscar 10-12-2018 10:13 PM

Welcome aboard..... similar boat (haha) here.... Last boat was a Catalina 42 which carried me over 7000 miles, 6 of those off shore, half of that solo. Total fuel burn.... 400 gallons.

But we want more space, no more wet and cold, to get there in X hours and not "maybe today" and we don't want to cook in a 30ļ heeled galley anymore....

I've been studying it for a long time, as I can't quite pull the trigger yet. (Few more in the salt mines, then I can get to my money). I have found similar results to what Dhayes is saying.

You WILL burn a LOT more fuel. If that's an issue, stop now.
You will NOT spend as much time on large(r) water. Calm days, in and out to "steal" a few hundred miles. The ICW is going to be your friend.
There are Long Range Cruisers that WILL do what you want, but that $$ figure you quoted ain't buying them.....

So there's going to be compromise..... Every night after dishes my sweetie and I sit and look at boat porn.... Every day we get a little closer to where we think we want to be.

healhustler 10-13-2018 12:36 AM

1 Attachment(s)
The criteria sounds almost like the detail that provoked Cardude to custom equip his Island Packett PY Cruiser with a 40 ft. mast for motor sailing. Such a boat offers the economy, seaworthyness, range and protected pilothouse suggested.

oscar 10-13-2018 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by healhustler (Post 706276)
The criteria sounds almost like the detail that provoked Cardude to custom equip his Island Packett PY Cruiser with a 40 ft. mast for motor sailing. Such a boat offers the economy, seaworthyness, range and protected pilothouse suggested.

Hah, the SP Cruiser is not a bad idea....

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/200...uiser-3105416/

O C Diver 10-13-2018 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crosby-dog (Post 705976)
Thanks AusCan. A motorsailor is a potential option, or just upgrading an enclosed pilothouse sailboat.

A new question - at what point is a trawler - say a Maineship 40 as was suggested or a Grand Banks 40-ish really no fun on a coastal ocean passage? We're not sailing to Bermuda, we're usually just hugging the coast a few miles out along Long Island or Jersey, but it can get big out there and that's what we do a lot.

The sailboat displaces 23,000 lbs and we are having fun in up to about 6'-7' ocean swell with a decent period of like 8-10 seconds. Tighter and bigger than that we start to wish we stayed in.

I realize this is a subjective question. I'm just looking for thoughts on how restricted would I'd be in doing coastal passages like that in a trawler like the ones suggested.


Thanks again.


Edit: I guess I'm looking for sort of the max "comfortable and safe" marine forecast for a coastal ocean passage on these boats.

Swells yes; waves no.
My 45' trawler can easily do 7'+ seas, but it's no fun. While I haven't timed it, 6' to 7' at 10 seconds plus would probably be fine, not at 7 seconds. If you plan to go out in the rougher stuff, pay special attention to the interior of boats you're looking at. Low center of gravity and things built in will make a big difference.

For another benchmark on fuel economy, I repowered my semi planing hull boat with a 135 HP engine. 95% of the time I cruise 7 knots at 2 GPH. 8 knots consumes 3.7 GPH. The original engine supposedly would yield 14 knots at 21 GPH. :eek:

The final consideration on speed: Until you factor in current, 7 knots is just that, all the time and directly into the wind. Depending on your cruising, you may find that a sustained speed (+/- current) may be a significant time reduction compared to what you are use to.

Ted


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