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-   -   Deere 4045 Industrial/ZF repower under $10K (http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s6/deere-4045-industrial-zf-repower-under-%2410k-403.html)

lotusman1951 06-22-2008 12:23 PM

Deere 4045 Industrial/ZF repower under $10K
 
I wanted to share some of my results with a winters repower of my 45ft steel trawler with a Deere Industrial block marinized with Deere parts. My basic boat 45loa/43lwl 4.5 draft and 13 beam 40,000 pounds on the travelift scales was operating with a MAN 4 liter 45hp/150 pounds of torque 3/1 BW trans/34 inch prop. 30,000 hours 5.5mpg. The MAN was hard to get parts for and the BW trans a type 73 was in a simular boat. My operating speeds were 7.1-7.5 knots at 1200-1400rpm.

What I wanted as a simular result, quite operation, economy, better parts support. I was torn between the Kaboda 3.8 liter and the 4.5 Deere, Torque was better on the Deere 220 verses 180 for the Kaboda*at 1500rpm-which I wanted as an operational limit.

Deere refused to warrenty my engine unless I proped it to do 2500--a prop size around 28 inches. at 1200rpm the Deere uses .6gph at 2500 about 4gph. The torque peak on the Deere is 1400rpm/.9gph.

My decision was to build my own. I purchased a 2005 tier 2 4045 non turbo that was used for $2900 with an SAE 3 flywheel/bellhousing (lugger uses the smaller SAE 4) $2500 for the exhaust manifold/heat exchanger/raw water pump and exhaust elbow from a Deere Dealer as a package deal, $500 on Silicon hose, So $6000ish on the engine-plus spares at $1000 ($225 Injector pump, $50 gasget set, $40 hard lines etc).

For a gear set Hurth ZF 80 2.85 ratio $1600 on Ebay/New another $400 for couplers/Drivesaver.

Anyhow now with 20 hours on the package I am smoother, faster and happier. I have some gear rumble from the ZF at low operating speeds 700-1000rpm that I will throw money at with a different flex plate next winter. The engine with 70ft pounds more torque feels snappy, Sea trials with the 34inch prop reveals a limit of 1750rpm and I get 8.5 knots at 1600rpm WOW!

No issues with oil pressure/water temps. no black smoke when overpowering at 1750rpm. What I expect to cruise at 1200-1400rpm will yield less that 1 gph at 7.5 knots according to Deere and Luggers fuel use charts.

I am providing this report as a real life experience not a point of debate about how a diesel will get screwed up if you run it slowly-I found the Deere engineers at the regional and corporate levels not helpful-I located a consulting engineer to Lugger and communicated*about my operational speeds of sub 1500rpm* and got a green light and have now with 20 hours underway achieved most of my goals.

A big propeller turning slowly (up to 500rpm)*an engine operating at its torque peak is my combination-for over 200,000 miles JOLIE has been doing just that and now with the sub $10,000 repower she has another liftime in front of her.


Kevin Kearney
1966 Sutton trawler
Miles River Yacht Club, St Michaels, Maryland

Jim Spence 06-22-2008 02:36 PM

RE: Deere 4045 Industrial/ZF repower under $10K
 
Good job and a great post. How about posting some pix.

FF 06-23-2008 03:07 AM

RE: Deere 4045 Industrial/ZF repower under $10K
 
"Sea trials with the 34inch prop reveals a limit of 1750rpm and I get 8.5 knots at 1600rpm WOW!"

I would install an EGT meter ($100 or so) just to be sure that IF you ever run at 1600 cont its OK.

Ordinarily a 10% reduction from full tilt will unload the engine enough for "forever" use.

Good swop , but be advised the Deere dealers frequently have "sales" on their factory rebuilt basic engines , and DO NOT , require a useable core.

Work with a dealer (or two or three) to get the best nCA$H deal.

While its still on the shelf get a rebuild package for onboard stores for the Hurth.

FF

lotusman1951 06-23-2008 04:54 AM

RE: Deere 4045 Industrial/ZF repower under $10K
 
1 Attachment(s)
I got a EGT meter and probe but have had a difficult time in in finding the right location to get a non water cooled reading. The deere elbow is kind of cast Iron with a stainless sleeve insert, I started to drill into the 1/2 inch flange that is the gasget base between the manifold and the elbow but snapped two titanium bits and gave up. The best I can do at the moment is to measure the temp of the cast Iron flange.I havent bothered-I seem to need a EGT reading of about 900F with a limit of 1130F-but I need a good access point and the only alternative is to have a custom elbow made with a EGT port--My prop limit on effective speed is 500rpm according to Gerrs Propeller Handbook and with the 2.85 gears that translated to 1425 engine rpm-torqre peak for the deere/.9gph-but the 1600 rpm speed is sweet for short bursts.

Baker 06-23-2008 09:01 AM

RE: Deere 4045 Industrial/ZF repower under $10K
 
Lotus, thanks for the post. That is also one fantastic looking boat. I don't know if you have a flowscan but do not automatically assume that your fuel consumption will be equal to what Deere has on their site. I would assume their performance is based on a prop that they recommend...not a prop like yours. IOW, your boat is more highly loaded at those same RPMs and therefore will use more fuel.

lotusman1951 06-23-2008 10:39 AM

RE: Deere 4045 Industrial/ZF repower under $10K
 
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Soon I'll do day tank/graduated cylinder fuel consumption tests-my previous MAN was calibrated and kept a milage and fuel log for the past 150,000 miles and had simular performance levels to the Deere 4045 at 1500rpm-I am hoping that the leaner burning tier 2 spec and 4 valve heads will in conjunction to my slower*engine speed with the 2.85 verses the 3.0 gears previously fitted will be better than the previous 5.5mpg which included generator time ONAN MJ now koboda/Phasor. Live and Learn Kevin , Flowscans are more expensive than fuel.

2bucks 06-23-2008 11:51 AM

RE: Deere 4045 Industrial/ZF repower under $10K
 
"Flowscans are more expensive than fuel."

Hmmmm...... let's try some math on that statement. You stated that you've gone 150,000 miles and you get 5.5 miles per gallon. That usage used 27272 gallons of fuel.

If you could add just one tenth of a mile per gallon, go from 5.5 to 5.6 miles per gallon would it be worth an $800.00 FloScan? If you go on the new set up the same 150,000 miles at 5.6 MPG you will save 486 gallons. At $4.50 per gallon You'll save $2,188.00. That's real close to 3 times the cost of the FloScan.

That does not take into account being able to know when a partially clogged injector is costing you more fuel usage for the same RPM, or other benefits.

Ken

lotusman1951 06-23-2008 01:22 PM

RE: Deere 4045 Industrial/ZF repower under $10K
 
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I have found that there is a certain harmony in every engine a point of balance, a prefered speed.*I sense the same*with the boat as well ,seeing the wake, watching how the water breaks over the bulbus bow, listening to the sound of the propeller. Doing the engineering well at a fundemental level, applying your experience, being willing to make an effort and try again. From Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintence in reference to the Bible "come to terms with your ass because it bears you" applys to all my things that move. The disharmony from a clogged injector is apparent to one in harmony with his/her ass/boat. Again from Zen/motorcyle "what is good* and what is not good, need we have others tell us these things?" flowscans are just telling devices they cost about 200 gallons of fuel about 1000 miles of experiences. Sometimes these trawler systems upon systems with redundancy drive us all nuts. Yes, I would like a flowscan but for me its either going to Georgian Bay this fall or having another device on my boat. Simplify/Simplify 50hp pushing 40,000 pounds of boat is as economical as I can get. Repowering without overpowering ,and it was hard not to buy the 4045 turbo with 140hp-computer and fuel use meter incorporated,
That dollor up alone from 4045D to 4045T was about the price of a flowscan.Oh well-I am just a motorhead, boat nut without a million bucks,

FF 06-29-2008 03:26 AM

RE: Deere 4045 Industrial/ZF repower under $10K
 
Lotus,

AS you like old cars E me at food_wagonATjuno.com (Install the @) and I will send you a book I think you will enjoy.

FF


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