Using a Makita 3-3/8" saw to re-groove teak seams?

[FBoykin]

That Veritas plane looks interesting! I tried out my Makita 3 1/2" saw on my bow locker hatch. It did ok, but there was still plenty of handwork afterwards and I was always on edge that I was going to mis-cut my teak. So I did the smaller of my 2 lazarette hatches by hand with a Fein tool, Teak Decking Systems reef hook & sanding block plus MM size hand chisels and a nice English plow plane I found on Ebay. It turned out very well, but took more time than expected.

I sent mplangley a message with questions. Mainly how well di it work and what was his preferred method of use. His plane looks like a very, very useful tool! Unfortunately, tool is out of stock until late April...

 

[Benthic2]

I use the Fein tool pretty regularly at work. For personal use I picked up the Milwaukee 12 Volt cordless oscillating tool for $79. ( I already had a number of Milwaukee M12 batteries ) While I have not used it a lot yet, it works very well, battery life is good, and the cuts are very precise. If you've already got some cordless tools, most of the major companies make cordless versions of the oscillating tool. Its amazing how useful it becomes once you own one.

 

[Xsbank]

Mr. Lowe, that’s why.

 

[mplangley]

Did you use progressively deeper passes when removing the caulk with the plane or were you able to sink the blade deep and get most out in one pass? Not much in this world as nice as a fine hand tool....

We did make several passes depending upon how deep we needed to go. It worked perfectly.

One thing is I did not use the blade in the picture. That might work well also especially for removing the caulk. For removing the caulk we mostly used a reefing tool and did not encounter much of a problem with that..

 

[FBoykin]

Thought I'd update folks on my teak project. I used my 3 hatches (bow & 2 lazerette) for practice. I tried the Makita saw on the bow hatch and found that it was too tricky to use (messy & real easy to overcut or wander) and never used it again. After seeing the plow plane photo in this thread, I researched them - Stanley made standard size ones and there was an English palm size version (Record #043). I located both on Ebay. I also got some millimeter size hand chisels and tools from Teak Decking Systems (TDS) and did the lazarette hatches by hand with assistance from my Fein multi-tool.

Some of the hatch board tips were loose so I glued them back with West thickened epoxy, then cut out the caulk with a carpet knife and TDS reefing tool. I cut the grooves deeper with the Record plane and hand chisels. Sanded the grooves with the Fein tool and applied the caulk. I used bond breaker tape and masked the teak with 3M blue tape.

Believe me, I got WAY better as time went on. One photo shows the majority of the tools I'm using (since I have the rest of the deck to do). There's lot more details, but that's the big picture.

 

[Comodave]

Looks good. Practice always helps with the skills...

 

[mplangley]

Nice work on the hatches. It seems like there are a number of good ways to approach teak deck grooves. If anyone knows of a good way to approach the plugs Id like to hear about it. That is one of my next projects.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. mp. I'm sure there are as many different tricks and techniques for re-doing teak plugs as there are folks doing it. Mr. LM has a nice assortment of countersink bits and plug cutters pictured in post #26.


The BIGGEST problem I have found with re-doing plugs is safe, clean and accurate removal of the old plug. IF one uses a drill bit to open the center of the plug there is a real risk of damaging the screw heads which are usually those cursed Phillips head demons and are horrendous to remove at the best of times.


I made a small, semi-round chisel ( out of an old file and gently cut just inside the glue line to the point where I can pick out the bits and pieces with a Harbor Freight "dental pick". https://www.harborfreight.com/6-piece-pick-set-93514.html
thus enabling a good clean out of the screw head.


My technique would NOT be productive for more than a few plugs.

 

[Xsbank]

I did my entire GB 32 deck with a Swiss Army knife, smallest blade. It popped out the bungs without enlarging the holes, cut the old caulk accurately, then I used the drill/countersink combo from Lee Valley and pounds of bronze screws. Fun.

 

[FBoykin]

I did my entire GB 32 deck with a Swiss Army knife, smallest blade. It popped out the bungs without enlarging the holes, cut the old caulk accurately, then I used the drill/countersink combo from Lee Valley and pounds of bronze screws. Fun.

Do you happen to have a link or more details on that drill/countersink combo from Lee Valley? I'm thinking I might already have it, but not sure. Replacing a fair amount of teak plugs is on my to-do list too.

BTW, Lee Valley is a great source for good tools. They sell plane blades in millimeter widths that fit my 1950's English palm plane and they have good blade sharpening accessories too.

 

[HopCar]

W.L. Fuller makes a pretty complete line of plug making and installing tools.
W.L. Fuller Inc. - Tools to cut woods, plastics, and metals.

 

[Ralsy]

 

[dreamerbob]

The small circular saw with stacked blades and with a guide pin set at the rear of the saw when operating is by far the fastest and easiest method remove the old deck caulk, deepen and clean the seams for new caulk I have found.

Be sure to run the saw backwards so as to keep the work area in front of you clean so you can see to work.

 

[Ralsy]

Good tip. Thanks for sharing

 

[firstbase]

The small circular saw with stacked blades and with a guide pin set at the rear of the saw when operating is by far the fastest and easiest method remove the old deck caulk, deepen and clean the seams for new caulk I have found.

Be sure to run the saw backwards so as to keep the work area in front of you clean so you can see to work.

I assume from your comments that you have done them this way...Any suggestion on make/model? Did you use a 4 1/2" saw? I believe some are as small as 3 1/2".

 

[dreamerbob]

The saw is a Makita, blades 4 1/2" to 5".

Personally, I have re-done many teak decks this way and so has my trained crew, without any tool slips.

I have and find the Fein MM to be of limited use for professional work and prefer various stock and custom hand tools faster and better suited.

 

[Xsbank]

The saw works too.

I did my entire deck (GB32) with the small blade of a Swiss Army knife. Its not rocket science, more like blacksmithing. Whatever works for you and your skills.

 

[Boat]

Wanted to link these two repairs together so I can find them later. The other thread mentions the hot knife approach to plastic work.

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s32/teak-deck-caulk-repair-38057.html

The old way was with three foot long chisels called shipbuilding slicks. Variations on shipbuilding slicks did most of this type of work in the pre-synthetic era. Cut a chisel to fit the job and pound it into submission.

 

[firstbase]

Wanted to link these two repairs together so I can find them later. The other thread mentions the hot knife approach to plastic work.

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s32/teak-deck-caulk-repair-38057.html

The old way was with three foot long chisels called shipbuilding slicks. Variations on shipbuilding slicks did most of this type of work in the pre-synthetic era. Cut a chisel to fit the job and pound it into submission.

Excuse my ignorance on this...wouldn't the hot knife melt some of the caulk into the wood making it even harder to remove? I see 1/8" and 1/4" blades. Hot knife would require several passes. Again, wonder about the melting in doing this. Starting to think Mr. Xsbanks Swiss Army knife wisdom is best!

 

[FBoykin]

Guy in slip next to me loaned me his hot knife. I didn't like it. Once it got hot, it got really hot and I was concerned about getting burned or charring something on the boat by putting it down wrong. I also tried the Fein caulk cutting blade, but decided against using it because it was too easy to also cut into the teak.

I'm now about 80% through doing the entire deck and have settled on using all hand tools. I rarely use the Fein tool anymore. I'm doing the job out in the open so I need a few days of good weather and I only do a few feet a day. It may be slow to do it all by hand, but it helps me keep things in better control and I'm more accurate cleaning out the seams and keeping the seams straight.

The Teak Decking Systems reef hook tool and sanding "block" are must haves. I bought a roll of sticky back 60 grit sandpaper from Amazon and cut strips to fit the "block". Also got 4MM & 5MM chisels from Amazon. They are must have tools as well. The Record plane I found on Ebay and it is the most valuable tool of them all as I use it to cut the seams deeper. I got 4 MM & 5 MM blades from Lee Valley tools to fit the Record so I don't over widen the seams more than necessary. A GOOD pair of knee pads is a must and so are blue gloves. The TDS caulk is like a magnet - it gets everywhere!

I remind myself of how much I've done rather than how much I have left. Put my head down and just keep going.

 

[firstbase]

Guy in slip next to me loaned me his hot knife. I didn't like it. Once it got hot, it got really hot and I was concerned about getting burned or charring something on the boat by putting it down wrong. I also tried the Fein caulk cutting blade, but decided against using it because it was too easy to also cut into the teak.

I'm now about 80% through doing the entire deck and have settled on using all hand tools. I rarely use the Fein tool anymore. I'm doing the job out in the open so I need a few days of good weather and I only do a few feet a day. It may be slow to do it all by hand, but it helps me keep things in better control and I'm more accurate cleaning out the seams and keeping the seams straight.

The Teak Decking Systems reef hook tool and sanding "block" are must haves. I bought a roll of sticky back 60 grit sandpaper from Amazon and cut strips to fit the "block". Also got 4MM & 5MM chisels from Amazon. They are must have tools as well. The Record plane I found on Ebay and it is the most valuable tool of them all as I use it to cut the seams deeper. I got 4 MM & 5 MM blades from Lee Valley tools to fit the Record so I don't over widen the seams more than necessary. A GOOD pair of knee pads is a must and so are blue gloves. The TDS caulk is like a magnet - it gets everywhere!

I remind myself of how much I've done rather than how much I have left. Put my head down and just keep going.

The TDS "sanding block" you mention, that's the vertical sander that cleans the sides of the seams correct? You also mention a Record plane, which model are you using? I assume you meant you only deepening the seam not widening it as well? Your post mentioned "so I don't over widen"... thanks for your review of the process. What is the width of your seam? Are you putting down a bond breaker tape under the caulk?

 

[FBoykin]

Yes, the TDS "sanding block" I mention is the one with the teak handle and the adjustable aluminum blade. The blade is great because you can adjust it for the depth of the seam.

Go back to post #35 - I listed the tools I was using at the time and mentioned the model Record palm plane I use (Record #043). It is a beautiful little tool and I really like tools!


Most of my seams are about 4mm wide, a few are 5mm. I was using the Fein tool with the tile grout blade to sand off the last of the old caulk and found that it made the seams wider than I liked. I found that the TDS sanding block with heavy grit did just as good a job.

I do use bond breaker tape which can be a major pain to get to lie flat in the bottom of the seam, especially on windy days. I have yet to find a fool proof way to apply it. Sometimes I get it in the seam in one smooth motion, then the next seam takes forever and multiple tries.

 

[firstbase]

Yes, the TDS "sanding block" I mention is the one with the teak handle and the adjustable aluminum blade. The blade is great because you can adjust it for the depth of the seam.

Go back to post #35 - I listed the tools I was using at the time and mentioned the model Record palm plane I use (Record #043). It is a beautiful little tool and I really like tools!


Most of my seams are about 4mm wide, a few are 5mm. I was using the Fein tool with the tile grout blade to sand off the last of the old caulk and found that it made the seams wider than I liked. I found that the TDS sanding block with heavy grit did just as good a job.

I do use bond breaker tape which can be a major pain to get to lie flat in the bottom of the seam, especially on windy days. I have yet to find a fool proof way to apply it. Sometimes I get it in the seam in one smooth motion, then the next seam takes forever and multiple tries.

Thanks! Forgot this thread has some history behind the latest posts....going to stop now and go back and reread the whole thing. RTF told me that one of the signs of age is asking "new' questions in a thread that are the same questions you asked in the same thread a year ago. A wise man that RTF.

 

[Comodave]

One even more intense sign of aging is when you ask the same question a second time in the same thread.

 

[Benthic2]

There are paint scraper blades for the Fein tool that don't have cutting teeth on them. If you have access to a bench grinder, you can grind down a blade to any shape or width you want.

 

[firstbase]

One even more intense sign of aging is when you ask the same question a second time in the same thread.

Yep. I think that's what I was trying to say. I should probably take a nap now. Anyone seen my Geritol?

 

[Comodave]

I think I did but I cannot really remember...

 

[FBoykin]

I think I forgot to add that I modified a Fien tile glue scraper blade by cutting the sides down so the blade part is only about an inch and half wide. My teak got sanded way too much by previous owner(s) so I'm taping off the teak with blue tape before putting in new caulk. Once I pull up the tape, the caulk stands a bit proud of the teak. The Fien tool with modified blade does great at cutting the excess caulk flush with the teak without gouging the wood as the blade moves back and forth.

 

[Xsbank]

I used one of those razor blades with the thick side for holding it and just laid it flat on the deck and pushed it down the new seam. The blade is the perfect angle with the thick part and the blade flat on the deck to leave a perfectly flat seam in one pass. You can do an entire seam before you even plug in your Fein tool.

I have a Fein which I bought the same time that the boat purchase was completed. Over-rated for deck work. A pack of blades is a dollar or two.

 

[firstbase]

I used one of those razor blades with the thick side for holding it and just laid it flat on the deck and pushed it down the new seam. The blade is the perfect angle with the thick part and the blade flat on the deck to leave a perfectly flat seam in one pass. You can do an entire seam before you even plug in your Fein tool.

I have a Fein which I bought the same time that the boat purchase was completed. Over-rated for deck work. A pack of blades is a dollar or two.

Gotta love that Xsbank. I remember a long time ago on Saturday morning TV there were three craftsman/woodworker shows right in a row. First was Norm on New Yankee Workshop. Had three of every tool known to man, all given to him free of charge by Dewalt. Second show was that Roy Underhill guy who was old school. Had every tool known to man in the 1850's. Then last was a little Asian man, forget his name, who built intricate detailed unbelievable furniture equipped with what seemed like chops sticks, pair of tweezers and a Q-tip. Did it all, little to no tools. Almost like he willed the wood into a piece of furniture. Xsbank, with your renewing of your teak decks with a Swiss Army knife and thick sided razor blade...you are the little Asian guy of TF.