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-   -   Users' Opinions On Various Makes of Engines Needed (http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s6/users-opinions-various-makes-engines-needed-35591.html)

Pack Mule 11-13-2017 08:10 PM

Anybody have experience with a BMW D150 Marine Diesel ?

smitty477 11-13-2017 08:12 PM

I have owned boats with Cummins, Perkins , Lehmans,Yanmar, CATS, and Hinos. Diesel gensets in boats with Lister Petter, Westerbeke and Onan. Trucks with diesels 6.2 Suburban, 6.5 Hummer, 7.3 Ford, 6.6 Duramax and a 5.9 Cummins.
You will likely get a lot of feedback on the board about all the brands except maybe the Hino's. I ended up liking them a lot so I had 3 sets in 3 separate boats over maybe 25+ years so if you have questions about them please just ask.
- one pair of EH700 Na's (175 hp)
- one pair of EH700 TI's (220 hp)
- one pair of WO6 D TI II's (310 hp)

Nomad Willy 11-13-2017 10:36 PM

Marty,
Are you looking at a Lord Nelson?

BandB 11-13-2017 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunchaser (Post 609599)
Just traded in my 12 year old Suburban. It had about 1700 hours. I'm impressed with 12K hours on a boat with a Cummins. Much tougher operating parameters than a light duty truck with same engine.

But how do you put 12K in 17 years on a small boat unless commercial?

That's not hard. Only 700 hours a year.

Delta Dog 11-13-2017 10:54 PM

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. My "beauty" is a VT555 Cummins with almost 8K hrs on it. It purrs like a kitten and pushes my boat at 8.5 to 9 knts at 1900 RPM with a 4.3 gal per hr fuel burn. There are a lot of people who would tell you the "dreaded" tripple nickel is one of those engines to stay away from, however mine has been well maintained and not abused by it's PO's. I'm also lucky in that I have a mechanic that loves the beast too. As others have said, how the motor has been treated and maintained over it's life is far more important than the brand. Bottom line, my advise would be: Find a boat you love first, then find it with a well maintained engine, then buy it.

Art 11-13-2017 11:49 PM

For even more confusion - use the search feature of TF!

Your eyes will eventually glaze over....

High Wire 11-14-2017 12:15 AM

"All generalities are false." You can read all kinds of good or bad on any engine. Who's opinion matters more? Someone who works on all different engines or someone who has owned one or two? I would listen to the mechanic that fixes the brand. Ask said mechanics about parts availability.
FWIW, I have a friend with twin Cat 3116 engines. If you read the opinions online, those engines should have been trashed at around 500-1000 hours. They are now well over 2000+ hours and 20 years old, start immediately, NO smoke at all; and use about a quart of lube oil per season; very undiesel like.:dance: The only failure was one solenoid when the boat was new and a leaking Racor cap gasket.
I have another friend with a pair of 30 YO Volvo TAMD40's. 29 years of near perfect service, then one year of agony with one engine with performance problems. The mechanics were from a highly respected local small business. Bottom line: injectors were only "cleaned" instead of "rebuilt" and did not solve the initial problem so the problem must lie elsewhere. In the end, it WAS the injectors the whole time. Not the engines fault.
And another friend with a pair of Volvo TAMD40P's that for the last 10 years, one engine consistently overheats at cruise. Everything cooling related on that engine has been replaced with new at least once. He is so disgusted, the boat rarely leaves the slip now.
You pay your money and you roll the dice.
My boat? 33 YO Perkins 6.354 NA. 4800+ hours and doing just fine.
Curse the rules that make new engines like these no longer available.

Pack Mule 11-14-2017 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomad Willy (Post 609626)
Marty,
Are you looking at a Lord Nelson?

Eric I'm always just looking.:) There are a few out there still running the BMW d150.

Baker 11-14-2017 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaston (Post 609567)
That's only 3 years in a truck at much higher RPM

Assuming 50mph average....that is 600,000 miles in 3 years. I am having a hard time believing that. And they are not at higher RPMs. A truck gets up to speed and then the load decreases significantly. A boat is under continuous load. I guess you are assuming that we are going displacement speeds and not running anywhere near the design load of the engine. And I am assuming 70% power. If you run a boat(engine) at 70% it is at 70% the entire time....not just until it gets up to speed and then "coasts".

Baker 11-14-2017 08:37 AM

And folks, the very vast majority of the Cat 3116/26 "soft blocks" have been replaced or thrown away. Caterpillar is a very good company and not only did they replace them under warranty, they keep very good records. A little due diligence and you can determine if an engine in question was a soft block.

yarradeen 11-14-2017 09:19 AM

Hino is subsidiary of Toyota. Basically toyota truck brand.

FYI

Toyota have a 5% owner ship of Isuzu

Nomad Willy 11-14-2017 09:29 AM

yarr,
Have you seen post #11?

High Wire,
You wrote;
“All generalities are false." You can read all kinds of good or bad on any engine. Who's opinion matters more? Someone who works on all different engines or someone who has owned one or two? I would listen to the mechanic that fixes the brand. Ask said mechanics about parts availability.”
OP not looking for true or false.
Read the thread title ...Opinions.

Art 11-14-2017 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baker (Post 609683)
Assuming 50mph average....that is 600,000 miles in 3 years. I am having a hard time believing that. And they are not at higher RPMs. A truck gets up to speed and then the load decreases significantly. A boat is under continuous load. I guess you are assuming that we are going displacement speeds and not running anywhere near the design load of the engine. And I am assuming 70% power. If you run a boat(engine) at 70% it is at 70% the entire time....not just until it gets up to speed and then "coasts".

Interesting premise there Baker; the way you stated it anyway. "A truck gets up to speed and then the load decreases significantly." By "load"... You do mean the load of hp. required for accelerating the inertia of a truck's dead weight... correct? Once up to speed the truck engine has to overcome other uniquely variable loads [such as tread designs, tire pressures, winds, bearing designs] than before due to natural airflow blockage or assistance and faster tire rotations and more bearing/grease rotations/frictions.

Therefore, although considerably different in many respects/aspects of friction and natural property blockage/assistance during acceleration and after attaining cruise speed, the overcoming inertia "load" during acceleration for a boat engine also decreases significantly once hitting cruising speed... correct? That is of course depending on speed reached, how quickly speed is reached and what design hull is riding in what manner either in or over the water.

Of course each "load" factor for land or water craft, of accelerating weight and then maintaining speed, has included in its formula just how fast to accelerate to reach and maintain a desired speed.

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...NWBn0Q9QEIKjAA

Recb 11-14-2017 10:11 AM

Reliability and longevity of a given engine depends on its history: correct loading, operated according to its rating, maintained according to the manufacturers spec. Of course this is brand independent. Regarding choice of one brand over another, the most important factor will be those servicing your engines. Eg What brand has the best service for your area.

smitty477 11-14-2017 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art (Post 609696)
Interesting premise there Baker; the way you stated it anyway. "A truck gets up to speed and then the load decreases significantly." By "load"... You do mean the load of hp. required for accelerating the inertia of a truck's dead weight... correct? Once up to speed the truck engine has to overcome other uniquely variable loads [such as tread designs, tire pressures, winds, bearing designs] than before due to natural airflow blockage or assistance and faster tire rotations and more bearing/grease rotations/frictions.

Therefore, although considerably different in many respects/aspects of friction and natural property blockage/assistance during acceleration and after attaining cruise speed, the overcoming inertia "load" during acceleration for a boat engine also decreases significantly once hitting cruising speed... correct? That is of course depending on speed reached, how quickly speed is reached and what design hull is riding in what manner either in or over the water.

Of course each "load" factor for land or water craft, of accelerating weight and then maintaining speed, has included in its formula just how fast to accelerate to reach and maintain a desired speed.

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...NWBn0Q9QEIKjAA

I believe baker is alluding to the fact that marine engines operate under higher loads in most all cases and especially in the one cited in his post. Engine loads on diesels as measured by fuel use per unit of time are often 4-5X higher in marine use than with their counterparts in a "suburban".
I had a Suburban diesel and it was almost always consuming 20-25% of the fuel per hour that a comparative marine diesel would be consuming.
Exceptions would be if the marine engine was operated well below their rated rpm and outputs.

Ski in NC 11-14-2017 10:14 AM

The BMW and Hino and many uncommon marine engines almost always have good solid base engines, otherwise they would have never made it in the other applications (ag, industrial, road) that usually precede marine packaging.

The problem is in the marine specific parts. I know the Hino and BMW used a lot of aluminum parts in contact with coolant with the expected corrosion issues. Trying to find replacement parts is difficult and expensive. Many of these engines have been pulled running fine, but with corrosion issues, and new power installed.

So if looking at an engine that is no longer in production or supported, make sure you can get parts. Look up things like exhaust manifolds, heat exchangers, etc.

If you can't find replacement parts, that does not mean that it is a bad engine. Many orphans are out there running fine. But owning one means a risk of a forced repower just due to parts. Any purchase price should be adjusted due to that very real liability.

Cats- generally can still get almost anything.
Cummins- can get most anything, but the old V-block 504, 555, 903, etc are a challenge.
Volvo- some older models now in orphan status, what you can get is $$$
Deere- Not much experience, but seems ok
Detroit- Long out of production, but still can get most anything
Yanmar- Seems like you can get anything, but $$$
Lehman- Can get most anything, but from limited vendors
Perkings- Can get most anything for the base engine, but some marine specific parts are NLA and hard to source.

tiltrider1 11-14-2017 10:16 AM

Just to drive some of you nuts. I just sold a 2001 Isuzu nqr with 30,000 hrs on the engine. At 28,000 hrs I had the head rebuilt to stop the smoking. That engine still has plenty of life left in it.

Art 11-14-2017 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiltrider1 (Post 609707)
Just to drive some of you nuts. I just sold a 2001 Isuzu nqr with 30,000 hrs on the engine. At 28,000 hrs I had the head rebuilt to stop the smoking. That engine still has plenty of life left in it.

Excuse me! Are you trying to say we are not already Nuts???? :facepalm: :D

Show me one boat owner who is not at least 50% nuts and I'll prove that is actually a previous boat owner who eventually got their head on straight! :rofl: :popcorn: http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/i...eed%20boat.gif

sunchaser 11-14-2017 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Recb (Post 609699)
What brand has the best service for your area.

True for some, but others of us travel far away from our "area". Thus basic prime engine design, pre-trip maintenance, spare parts on board and a local airport or post office come in handy. Yes, I've had parts delivered both ways, not for the tough engines though, but for other essential stuff.

sunchaser 11-14-2017 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiltrider1 (Post 609707)
Just to drive some of you nuts. I just sold a 2001 Isuzu nqr with 30,000 hrs on the engine. At 28,000 hrs I had the head rebuilt to stop the smoking. That engine still has plenty of life left in it.

Genset, marine service or what application?


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