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-   -   Users' Opinions On Various Makes of Engines Needed (http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s6/users-opinions-various-makes-engines-needed-35591.html)

ScottH 11-12-2017 08:28 PM

Users' Opinions On Various Makes of Engines Needed
 
Hello Everyone. I'll keep this as brief as possible.

My wife and I are shopping for a trawler in the 40 to 44 foot range. We've been boaters our whole lives, but this is a new direction.

Having reliable engines is critical. We don't have thousands of dollars to put into engine overhauls. And good fuel economy is important too.

I've heard lots of comments saying some engines are great, others are to be avoided. It hard to know which comments are accurate and which are not. We don't want to shy away from a boat that might be a great choice just because we've heard negative comments about the brand of engines that it has, when there's really nothing wrong with them.

I'd like to share the comments I've heard with you and see what you think.

Ford Lehman: Pros: Been around for years. Good, simple engines with good fuel economy, not breakdown prone, and last a long time. After-market parts readily available, and reasonably priced. Most mechanics can work on them.
Cons: None

Caterpillar: Same as Ford Lehman

Perkins: Same as Ford Lehman

Detroit: Pros: Been around for ever, After-market parts readily available. Most mechanics can fix them.
Cons: 2 cycle diesels. Run at higher revs than 4-strokes and burn a lot more fuel. More prone to breakdowns, and don't last as long.

Cummins: Pros: Been around forever. Good fuel economy. Reliable.
Cons: After-market parts not readily available. Require mechanics with specialized training to fix them. Those mechanics are not always available locally. Labor & mechanics' travel costs can make repairs much.more expensive than for other engines.

Volvo: Have heard nothing good about Volvo's. They are very prone to breakdowns, no after-market parts are available, Volvo parts are hard to get, take a long time to arrive, and are extremely expensive. And Volvo mechanics are said to be some of the most expensive out there. Breakdowns are frequent and repair costs are 'outrageous'. Saw an online survey about recommended brands for repowering boats, and 4 out of 5 respondents said Volvos were the worst possible choice you could make.

Hino:. Many Bayliner 45's have them installed. Haven't heard anything about them, good, bad or indifferent. Don't know who makes them. Sceptical of a 'no name' brand.

Also, if you have any thoughts about turbocharged engines vs naturally aspirated, I'd appreciate your comments.

And finally, any opinions on dual engines vs single engines in a trawler would be appreciated.

And there you have it. You can comment here, or shoot me an email directly at BackYardMapleVT@hotmail.com.

Thanks!

gaston 11-12-2017 08:40 PM

God bless your search for the Holy Grail may Indiana Jones be your inspiration and guide

Gordon J 11-12-2017 08:45 PM

I see too many generalizations to even begin commenting on what you’ve written, but offer some observations. I owned a truck company and bought trucks with cummins, Detroit’s and cats. Based on hard data, that is now 4-5 years old, cummins had best fuel economy of the three listed brands. I saw no differences in maintenance expenses or reliability between the brands.

Only Volvo I have had was on my last boat, which I owned for ten years. Never had.a.single.problem. Not one. So I can’t speak to parts availability or expense.

AusCan 11-12-2017 09:21 PM

The best engine is one thats been used often and maintained well.

The brand is much less important. They all made good engines, although every brand had some models that were better than others.

Seevee 11-12-2017 09:29 PM

Brands DO make a difference.

First, we cannot compare truck diesels with boat diesels.

And some have great reputations and some don't and everywhere inbetweed.

Personally, I'm a Yanmar fan. Excellent reputation, easy to get parts and service. But I would be opposed to something else provided it had a good reputation also.

Now Volvos... Based on my experience with three Volvo gas engines, I'd be hard pressed to get another, even though there are a lot of good boats with them and some OEMs still putting them in. The BIGGEST problem with Volvo is service. You can't call the factory, or a good rep, so you only have to rely on the local dealer... who could be good or bad.

The other ones look ok for the most part, but I don't have direct experience with them.

Lou_tribal 11-12-2017 09:32 PM

Don't forget Acadia engines, the best most exotic rarest most reliable engines, and if you can find one, I will owe you a 6 pack :)

L

Nomad Willy 11-12-2017 09:36 PM

See Vee,
Where do you think “marine engines” come from?

I have a tractor/generator engine in my boat. Ten years of buying oil filters. That’s it. Mitsubishi S4L2. It was marineized by a very reputable company that have been marinizing engines (mostly Isuzu) since the 60’s. They usually don’t do pleasureboat business.

gaston 11-12-2017 09:38 PM

Hino:. Many Bayliner 45's have them installed. Haven't heard anything about them, good, bad or indifferent. Don't know who makes them. Sceptical of a 'no name' brand.


HINO A "NO NAME" ?????????????????




This may turn into a Ford V GM thing

Donsan 11-12-2017 09:48 PM

Keep in mind the Lehmanís and Perkins and even DDs are going to be found on fairly old boats as are many of the Cats and they can no longer be obtained in new boats. They are not common rail or electronically controlled to meet EPA requirements as are modern engines.

You donít mention the type of cruising you do but if blue water is involved, you might want a continuous duty engine such as a Lugger or John Deere. Several boaters would have them at the top of their list.

Nomad Willy 11-12-2017 10:05 PM

Gaston,
Hino is a Ford truck product.
Don’t know who marineized then. Perhaps the company is named Hino.

lMO who marineizes an engine is as important as the engine.

gaston 11-12-2017 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomad Willy (Post 609356)
Gaston,
Hino is a Ford truck product.
Donít know who marineized then. Perhaps the company is named Hino.

lMO who marineizes an engine is as important as the engine.






Isuzu Motors Limited.not Ford

twistedtree 11-12-2017 10:33 PM

I think you are mis categorizing a number of things.

The need for specialized tools and training is true for electronically controlled engines and is not brand specific.

When you refer to aftermarket parts, do you mean parts made by a third party vs the engine manufacturer? In my experience, you almost aways have to get the parts through a dealer, but I also don't see it as being any big deal. Prices do vary between manufacturers, but not that much with the possible exception of Volvo.

I agree with adding Lugger and Deere to the list.m you will find them in slower, continuous duty boats, not in high output fast boats.

And detroits really need to b segmented into the older screaming jimmy 2 cycles and the newer 4 cycles. A lot of bigger boats have detroit/MTU 4 cycle engines.

But really any and all of the manufacturer are good, and past maintenance is way more important than brand.

Benthic2 11-12-2017 10:35 PM

Hino has been around for a hundred years. It seperated from another company in 1946, and became a subsidiary of Toyota in 2001.

Hino's Milestones | Organization and Facts | About Us | HINO GLOBAL

RT Firefly 11-12-2017 10:45 PM

Greetings,
Welcome aboard Mr. SH. Engines huh?

https://media0.giphy.com/media/Pq31k...0.gif#68-grid1

tiltrider1 11-12-2017 11:04 PM

As was stated earlier way to much generalization. Detroit’s are 2cyl but in the right application they can be just as fuel efficient as the next engine. When you consider fuel, parts, labor a DD671 might be the most economical engine for an application unless it’s a 400+hp 671, then it might be a bomb, or it might be a perfect combination of economy and reserve power.

I could go on similarly about each of the engines mentioned above. I wouldn’t walk from any of the engine manufactures mentioned but every one of them makes an engine I would avoid.

sunchaser 11-12-2017 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donsan (Post 609352)
Keep in mind the Lehmanís and Perkins and even DDs are going to be found on fairly old boats as are many of the Cats and they can no longer be obtained in new boats. They are not common rail or electronically controlled to meet EPA requirements as are modern engines.

You donít mention the type of cruising you do but if blue water is involved, you might want a continuous duty engine such as a Lugger or John Deere. Several boaters would have them at the top of their list.

Perkins is still in business. Parts for newer engines readily available. Marinization done by Sabre.

BandB 11-13-2017 12:02 AM

Scott H

For your own protection, please erase everything in your original post from your brain. It was dangerous generalizations and rumors and old sailor's tales from poorly informed boaters.

There are good and bad engines for every brand you mentioned. If you find a boat you like, you're not going to have the choice of ten engine brands.

You talk about "most mechanics can fix them" vs "require special training." I'd say any engine requires training and knowledge on that engine. Cummins is no more difficult to service than others. As to Volvo, someone talks about Volvo gas engines and then we hear "breakdowns are frequent." Volvo is among the most respected in Europe and of all the Volvo diesel owners I know, they've had no worse experience than any other engine and most like their Volvo's.

Hino, no name? Quite a good name actually.

Just a warning about your sources of information. If someone owns a Ford, they're probably going to tell you Chevy's are no good. We all are prejudiced. However, I would not reject a good boat with a well maintained engine based on the brand of that engine. Be careful about mechanics advice too as they like those they work on or know best.

As to turbochargers, it's going to be a matter of the vintage of the engine. Some here who don't have them will tell you how awful they are. I've never had a diesel that wasn't turbocharged and I've been happy.

Then twins vs singles, there are many threads here on it and no right answer. We couldn't possibly know what is best for you not knowing the boat or how you intend to use it.

While there are differences in engines and in marine applications of them, far more important is the condition of the engine and how it's been maintained.

AusCan 11-13-2017 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seevee (Post 609347)
Brands DO make a difference.

First, we cannot compare truck diesels with boat diesels.

And some have great reputations and some don't and everywhere inbetween.

Personally, I'm a Yanmar fan. Excellent reputation, easy to get parts and service. But I would be opposed to something else provided it had a good reputation also.


We can't compare truck diesels to boat diesels because there aren't any boat diesels any more.

There have been a few small purpose built marine diesels in the past such as the the Volvo MD series up until 1984. (It was one of their good engines) Almost all new "marine" diesels are truck, bus, or tractor engines that have been marinized.

Yanmar tries to market their marine engines as "purpose built" and give them a different model number from the tractor engines, but they are still basically the same with a marinizing kit.

I agree that Yanmar have great parts service. That has been Volvo's downfall.

ktdtx 11-13-2017 12:18 AM

I don't think you can categorize desirability totally by name brand.
Example:
There is a world of difference between a caterpillar 3208 producing 210 hp vs one producing 435 hp wrt longevity, maintenance, etc.

A lot of difference of opinion between a 300 hp Cummins 6bt and a 300 hp Cummins 555.

Depends a lot on how used and maintained as many have said.

Conrad 11-13-2017 12:34 AM

I'll jump in with an endorsement of of Lugger. Our NT came to us later in life with a 350 HP Lugger c/w almost 11,000 hours. Purrs along and don't expect anything major until around the 20,000 hour mark. Mind you, we did a significant service at 11,000 hours.

Here in Campbell River there are a number of places where I can get it serviced, and I don't think we are unusual in that regard. It is based on a Komatsu block which also has local support.

Our previous boat had a Volvo and again we were able to get good service locally and not at outrageous prices.


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