Westerbeke partial cure

[Mule]

Many, if not most Westerbeke engines are Mitsubishi. Westerbeke guards their suppliers as a corporate secret so they can extort their end users. We owners of these products are not customers in Westerbeke's view from my bad experiences. Only the boat manufacturers and distributors are their customers.
I had to buy a head gasket for a 3 cylinder 5.0 diesel Genset. $211.00! I did a lot of research yesterday and found the Mitsubishi engine model (not In any of their literature) and found a tractor company that carries parts...$59.00 for same head gasket. Compact Tractor in PN 866-950-1050.

The general rule seems to be if the part has Westerbeke written on it divide the cost by 4 for what you SHOULD be paying at retail elsewhere.

Just thought ya'all might like to know.

 

[SlowGypsy]

This is a fairly common issue, and not just with Westerbeke.
It would be a worthwhile project to come up with a list of alternative suppliers, complete with part numbers, for all of our engines. This list could then be added to by all forum members - would make a very useful "sticky"!

 

[Xsbank]

Onan mdje is also Kubota.
Northern Lights is IH-something-Shibauru
The very newest Onan are Chinese but then Perkins/ Shibauru are made in China too.

 

[FF]

The easiest cross reference can frequently be done at NAPA.

Look up an item like oil or fuel filters , and in the cross reference and you may find the engine mfg.

Other uses,

In the past Volvo oil filters $18.00, Ford $3.50

 

[what_barnacles]

My westerbeke has the Mitsubishi model number stamped on the block under/near the fuel pump. 4 cylinder 12KW.

I have to resleeve one cylinder and buy a rebuild kit for it. Cheapest I could find was $2500 for the kit, and 85 for the sleeve. Still, thats far cheaper than a replacement genny.

 

[Mule]

Was the "cheapest you could find" kit Mitsubishi or was it branded Westerbeke?

 

[Mule]

This is a fairly common issue, and not just with Westerbeke

It would be a worthwhile project to come up with a list of alternative suppliers, complete with part numbers, for all of our engines. This list could then be added to by all forum members - would make a very useful "sticky"!

===========================================

You are on to something. In fact a small mom and pop diesel parts supply company that already knows the business, has worked out the various supply chains could have a HUGE meatball right there.

 

[Mule]

This is a fairly common issue, and not just with Westerbeke

It would be a worthwhile project to come up with a list of alternative suppliers, complete with part numbers, for all of our engines. This list could then be added to by all forum members - would make a very useful "sticky"!

===========================================

You are on to something. In fact a small mom and pop diesel parts supply company that already knows the business, has worked out the various supply chains could have a HUGE meatball right there. The small engine marine world would beat a path to their door. Advertise on all the websites such as this.

FF had a wise suggestion. I wonder if NAPA or other parts suppliers such as NAPA goes into valves, Springs, push rods, connecting rods, pistons and so forth. Filters are one thing but while they cross Chevy gasket and rebuild kits it is another for a Shibauru or some such.

Yesterday I spoke to the parts guy, a friend, at a boat yard and I gave him the supplier info. He said that he hates to deal with Westerbeke and unless a customer insist they do not sell new Westerbeke gen sets. They are a dealer for Westerbeke and have to use their parts (contract I guess) for repairs. They are also dealers also for other Genset and main engine companies.

My distaste for Westerbeke goes deeper. As told on this forum last year I have a list of broken appointments with another dealer with no call, no cooperation from the distribution and the corporate office treated me as a PITA, even though I was, they are not supposed to teat an "End User" as such. This company was built by Daddy, now Jr inherited. Guess the rest of the story.

 

[FF]

" I wonder if NAPA or other parts suppliers such as NAPA goes into valves, Springs, push rods, connecting rods, pistons and so forth."

Not usually , but knowing the OEM and sourcing parts from that brand will usually cut a re-painter like Volvo or Westerbeke parts bill by 1/2 or 2/3.

Best of all is a common engine like a Detroit , Cummins or Ford where parts suppliers have many choices on price and build quality.

Engines like Kubota or Yannmar are frequently used in the big truck reefer units , and entire running engines are cheap!! Although smaller HP , about 15-20 hp , 3 running engines for a grand isn't bad.

THe JD engine parts from a tractor source are wonderfully cheaper than from the marine folks.

 

[Mule]

Yep, FF, you are spot on.

I got the head off yesterday. The engine is a mess. It has had salt water in the crankcase and in the combustion chambers. The exhaust ports are clogged with wet black gunk. Tired of spending and throwing good money after bad. Thinking of new Phasor.

Your thoughts FF?

 

[Xsbank]

Northern Lights

 

[Ski in NC]

Yep, FF, you are spot on.

I got the head off yesterday. The engine is a mess. It has had salt water in the crankcase and in the combustion chambers. The exhaust ports are clogged with wet black gunk. Tired of spending and throwing good money after bad. Thinking of new Phasor.

Your thoughts FF?

We've got a few Phasors around here, folks like them. Way less money than NL.

 

[Xsbank]

How do prices compare?

 

[Ski in NC]

8kW Phasor about $9k, NL about $15k.

 

[FF]

"Your thoughts FF"

Find out who built the engine for any brand you are contemplating and find the work around First.

Kubota , in an engine size that is common in lawn implements , or truck reefers would be first choice.

 

[psneeld]

Well, in a pinch I order from all the well known"fair" and "reasonable" and "knowledgable" experts and suppliers. I also order from discounted sources because money is ALWAYS a factor.

In my travels through pulling the engine head and repairing it, I learned some about who really new what....and where they make easy money.

Yesterday after breaking an injector retaining bolt, I ordered a couple from a well known supplier. I was in a rush, and after a couple hours of web searching and calls, broke down and paid $24 plus probably a few dollars for shipping for 2 bolts.

Now similar grade 8 bolts of similar sizes from suppliers are usually about 20 cents.

This was from a small, niche supplier.... not Westerbeke ... but a well beloved supplier.

 

[Mule]

I agree about the Kubota.

A few days ago I pulled the Mitsubishi (Westerbeke) head, as mentioned earlier, disassembled yesterday. Broken valve spring. Replacing all 6 valves, springs, seals. Needless to say, parts coming from Weaver Compact Tractor in Pennsylvania.

 

[mike66]

Not trying to go off topic, but what makes valve springs break? I share your dislike of Westerbeke. Needed a toggle switch for the control panel. I live a few miles from the company. Called them up, but they could only ship it to me. $15 or so for the switch, $15 for s&h. Found the same switch on Amazon or eBay for about $5 total.

 

[Ski in NC]

Corrosion pits on valve springs make stress risers. They crack in fatigue. Almost always a busted spring is also corroded. If you have rust on springs, replace them.

 

[mike66]

Just adjusted my FL clearance. Things looked pretty well lubricated. Does rust just happen? Thanks for the info! One of these days I'll do the Westerbeke. Not fun where it is.

 

[Ski in NC]

Rust on springs happens when water, likely coolant or sea water somehow gets in lube oil. Rocker area is about the coolest place in the engine so water vapor tends to condense there. Leave things damp up there, and things rust.

Always good to take a peek in oil fill hole on rocker cover. Metal below should be grey oily metal. No water droplets, no milky oil.

 

[FF]

It is a combination of rust , and a poor choice of spring material.

Old 6 cyl Chevies would have rust on the springs to the point that it was hard to see any way the valve could operate , yet they ran fine.

Volvo chose bad material for one of the engines they actually made , and dropping the valve into the cylinder ruing it and the cylinder head was common.

Volvo claimed it was operator error , yet after a year all the replacement valve springs were dipped into some goo to keep the surface from rusting.

Volvo took zero responsibility for the new damaged engines.

Not even just parts at cost!

 

[Mule]

FF, very typical of Volvo! By reputation they rate right up there with Westerbeke. Both have and are continuing to earn their reputation.
Spoke to another Westerbeke dealer Thurs. they hate to deal with them too, one comment was, "They are killing their company. No one that owns a Westerbeke will ever buy another, and they will tell their friends.".

 

[Mule]

I had a beak through today. Day started with a Westerbeke dealer giving me the price for each valve that I had thus far not been able to source at $72. EACH.

Then a John Deere parts guy I was working with came up with an exploded diagram of my head with Mitsubishi parts numbers. Then the dam broke when I googled the part number. Ace Power Systems in Miami has it in their online list. I will report next week pricing and how to do this work around.

 

[Al]

While Lucas is out of business, replacement parts are a challenge though they do exist. I recently replaced the fuel injector pump on my 4-236. The marine supply suppliers list it from anywhere North of $900. to as high as $1400.(I think I saw one for even more listed). Then on eBay, up jumped a Massey Ferguson dealer with a offer of around $479.00 and free freight. Called and discussed the difference in price, they have theirs contract built in Poland. I purchased. It arrived in three days! After installation, the max RPM we could obtain was 1900 WOT in neutral. Took a while to figure it out. The original pump was rated at 2850 RPM and this one at 2100 RPM. By backing the stop out to max we were able to obtain 2250 RPM WOT neutral. In sea trial the max RPM in gear WOT is 2000 RPM. Called the supplier suspecting that the settings for a tractor application called for internal settings different from marine use.
Correct. It is not a big point as we don't exceed 1650 RPM for hull speed (7 knots).
The point of this is to collaborate with what you folks have discovered, there are other supplier combinations that will obtain favorable results at a far lower cost. This is but another example.

Al-Ketchikan

 

[sunchaser]

It seems likely that any marine engine or genset in a marine environment will suffer if abused or underused. This 30 plus year old engine with obvious internal moisture or water ingestion damage gave a good fight.

You may benefit by checking out the exhaust system for worn elbow and other possible water sources that can negatively impact engine. Rusty valve springs are a tell.

 

[Mule]

Done all that. 1st problem, raw water pump. 2nd was over starting and did not close the through hull. The cylinders walls are good. Very good diesel mechanic said, considering what you have spent, finish the job. New head job with new valves, seals, Springs. Only thing left after that is rebuild the injector pump. Now that I have sourced reasonably priced parts....why not? Lower end seems fine.

 

[Mule]

Update

These prices are for the same parts each either sold by Westerbeke or Mitsubishi

Valve....W= $72.23----M=$22.56. Valve seal...W=$15.00. M=$3.51. Springs...W$15.00......M=$3.60

It seems there is a pattern there. The down side is delivery time. Westerbeke has a 2 day on all but the Springs which is 3 weeks.

Ace regular delivery on all is 4 weeks but Richard is working on expedited delivery. There is also a $391. Minimum order.

He seems to be interested in competing for this business and stocking parts for these engines. Wouldn't that be nice. There you have it:

MITSUBISHI INDUSTRIAL DIESEL ENGINE PARTS - Ace Power Parts Store

This company is in West Palm. 561-317-4154

 

[Ski in NC]

If you need to tear into the lower end, I think W uses a 4-ring piston, M standard is 3-ring. Ran into that a couple times, not sure how many 8BTD's that applies to.

Injection pump can be handled by any inj shop.

 

[what_barnacles]

Thanks for the link to them. Maybe they can kit together a rebuild kit that is competitive with the chinese folks. The chinese are cheaper than everyone, but I really dont want to air freight from there considering customs and all.