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-   -   Engine mount fuel filter (http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s6/engine-mount-fuel-filter-29857.html)

Lou_tribal 01-12-2017 11:35 PM

Engine mount fuel filter
 
Hi fellow TF members!
As strange as it can be, the engine mount onboard my boat does not have any engine fuel filter. Don't ask why, it is what it is.
My fuel filtration is limited to a single filter that I believe is a type Lucas 296 in case anybody knows it.
For the last 20 years it was like it and it is running fine, but it makes me a bit nervous knowing that usually engines have at least 2 filter with the finest on the engine.
Now my question is can I add a secondary filter on the engine? Would there be any impact on the fuel pump?
If yes can I add any model or what model of filter would best fit?

Thank you for any help on this.

BruceK 01-13-2017 12:55 AM

Lou,I might know but best left to the engine guys. You should post what engine you have.

North Baltic sea 01-13-2017 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lou_tribal (Post 512930)
Hi fellow TF members!
As strange as it can be, the engine mount onboard my boat does not have any engine fuel filter. Don't ask why, it is what it is.
My fuel filtration is limited to a single filter that I believe is a type Lucas 296 in case anybody knows it.
For the last 20 years it was like it and it is running fine, but it makes me a bit nervous knowing that usually engines have at least 2 filter with the finest on the engine.
Now my question is can I add a secondary filter on the engine? Would there be any impact on the fuel pump?
If yes can I add any model or what model of filter would best fit?

Thank you for any help on this.

if you worked just fine 20 years is unlikely to want to add another filter.:thumb:

I recommend you add another filter you ever change or fix the fuel injection.

do you know cav power filters to clean any size of particles?

I believe there is no technical impediment to add a second fuel filter on the machine, you need to know max fuel flow and to design a filter according to the trade that will sell you a shoe filter and the filter is able to help you for sure, or looking at the equivalent same power motor parts.

A second aspect would be to buy a new part to wait, sometimes when the pump breaks down, and again, you can run the following 20-30 years with no worries and work to change the fine filter.:whistling:lazy days...

psneeld 01-13-2017 06:46 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I took off the OEM and put a 2 micron Racor 120. I know the plastic bowl doesn't meet some standards, but neither do my regular Racors. I think t can come with a metal bowl...but if you do that, any small spin on filter is OK. For my Ford Lehman 120.


Maybe this summer I will fix them all up,

sunchaser 01-13-2017 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lou_tribal (Post 512930)
Hi fellow TF members!
As strange as it can be, the engine mount onboard my boat does not have any engine fuel filter. Don't ask why, it is what it is.
.

Read boat diesel's or seaboard marines' treatises on marine fuel filtering. No other internet sites I'm aware of can match their printed logic and information.

I note your vessel is custom built. Maybe the engine installed was marinized by the builder rather than using guidance from the engine manufacturer. It is not too late to fix it up right.

Lou_tribal 01-13-2017 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceK (Post 512937)
Lou,I might know but best left to the engine guys. You should post what engine you have.

BruceK, you hit the target with your question! My main issue is that my engine is very unusual. It is an Acadia AD30, a marinized version of an Hercules 6cyl diesel engine either model D-3000 or DD298 (the military version of the D-3000). It is a pretty old heavy duty engine. I have been able to find the maintenance manual for the Hercules version but not for the Acadia marinized version. I have never been able to find either someone with the same engine or any information on this exact engine. On the maintenance manual for Hercules they says that there are many configuration of the engine, with dual filtration, or not, but there is not much information.

While it has worked perfectly for the 20 last years like this, I tend to think that it is never too late to improve things. Moreover she only cruised in the local area where diesel quality is high but I would maybe be a bit nervous to refuel somewhere I am not sure about the fuel quality.

I read boatdiesel article about fuel filtration and understand the benefit of dual stage filtering with an engine mount last chance filter. But I don't know if adding a filter in the line where there is none may have an impact on the fuel pump by adding flow resistance, and I do not know either what would be the best fit for this filter. I would guess that any 2 micron filter would do but want to be sure :)

Ski in NC 01-13-2017 09:32 AM

Standard industry practice for an engine of your size/type would be a racor 500 as a primary filter/water separator, then the fuel lift pump, then a screw on secondary, then to the injection pump.

The secondary really does not need to be downstream of the lift pump if that would make it hard to mount.

Where is your filter located now?

Filter heads are available with generic mounting brackets. Get a filter head that fits a common commercial filter like used on CAT, Cummins, etc. Then elements are available anywhere.

Edit: Found this cross reference to Lucas 296:

http://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/Par...spx?Part=87638

Looks like a secondary already, 10 micron. That is a standard rating for your type injection pump which I think is Stanadyne or CAV.

Maybe what you need to add is a racor primary on the bulkhead.

twistedtree 01-13-2017 09:36 AM

Do you know what the rating is for the existing filter?

Assuming the engine is under about 350hp, I'd probably install a Racor 900 ahead of the existing filter, and use a 30u element. That will give you water separation as well. Not sure if you existing filter does that.

Lou_tribal 01-13-2017 09:45 AM

Once again, thank you Ski!
Curently my filter is located on the ER wall, rear/right of the engine. There is a fuel valve to select fuel tank or close, then the filter is the following model:
http://www.stardiesel.com/media/cata.../4/9/49226.jpg
Than the line is going to the fuel injection pump.
I do not think I have a lift pump or is it possible that the lift pump and fuel injection pump are all in one? In any case I have no pump before the filter or in between the filter and the injection pump.

alormaria 01-13-2017 09:45 AM

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Ski in NC 01-13-2017 09:50 AM

Some injection pumps have lift pump built in. If you have no lift pump, and your engine runs, then that is your case!!!

Really, with that bowl on the bottom you are pretty well covered as far as protecting your injection equipment.

Downside of this arrangement is you have little dirt/water holding capacity. If you travel far and in rough stuff that filter could load up fast. That is where it would be nice to have a racor 500 or 900 upstream of the Lucas.

tadhana 01-13-2017 09:53 AM

There should be absolutely no problem adding a primary filter. The flow rate to the engine is only a few GPH. The fuel pump will not notice the additional filter. Even with only one filter, the vacuum pressure is very low until it gets dirty. Once your on engine filter is dirty the vacuum builds. Your fuel pump is designed handle that load perfectly well. As a note, all marine diesels are delivered with only the on engine filter. All builders put a primary filter ahead of the secondary on engine filter. If you instal a Racor 500 or 900 filter you can get a recording vacuum gauge to tell you when the filter is getting dirty. That will alert you to change the filters before they get too bad and before the vacuum builds. Given its age, your engine probably was delivered with a 10 micron filter. A 20 micron primary ahead of your on engine secondary would be a good set up. When the vacuum builds in the primary you know to change both filters. My 2009 cumins has a 2 micron secondary. I have a 10 micron primary with recording gauge. I change the secondary filter once a year (we run about 600 hours per year) . I change the primary every 2-3 years (1,200 to 1,800 hours) , even though the vacuue gauge is still well below any level of concern. But if I did get a fuel problem, the recording gauge would let me know right away.

RK 23284 Stainless T-handle vacuum gauge Kit for all Turbine Series

Lou_tribal 01-13-2017 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistedtree (Post 513004)
Do you know what the rating is for the existing filter?

Assuming the engine is under about 350hp, I'd probably install a Racor 900 ahead of the existing filter, and use a 30u element. That will give you water separation as well. Not sure if you existing filter does that.

I do not know the exact micron rating of the current filter. I know the cartridge replacement part but not the rating. This cartridge part is made by numerous makers like delphi, lucas, CAV, ACDelco and many more. Looks like it is a very common part.
The replacement parts I am using are from ACDelco and are model ACD51, I have a box of them. But the micron rating is mentionned nowhere.

Lou_tribal 01-13-2017 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alormaria (Post 513007)
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Yes I was given this advice very often :D

Lou_tribal 01-13-2017 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ski in NC (Post 513013)
Some injection pumps have lift pump built in. If you have no lift pump, and your engine runs, then that is your case!!!

Really, with that bowl on the bottom you are pretty well covered as far as protecting your injection equipment.

Downside of this arrangement is you have little dirt/water holding capacity. If you travel far and in rough stuff that filter could load up fast. That is where it would be nice to have a racor 500 or 900 upstream of the Lucas.

Yes my engine runs, I am pretty sure I am not dreaming :D
Curently we are cruising in calm inland waterway and the longest stretch we did was 8 to 9h a day so I guess we are fine. But as we plan to extend our horizon in the future I was worrying a bit. I take note for the racor 500/900 so when comes the time to improve this I will not forget. I also saw that the same type of lucas filter exist in dual setup, this may be a good thing too.

smitty477 01-13-2017 10:27 AM

"Moreover she only cruised in the local area where diesel quality is high but I would maybe be a bit nervous to refuel somewhere I am not sure about the fuel quality."


Sounds like you would like to travel further with no issues or concerns about fuel by making a few modifications now within a reasonable budget.
That is a great thought and very similar to where I was and what I did in the past with a couple of boats. IMHO - I would suggest a few fairly cheap methods to get there....
- Add a bulk spin on filter between the tank and you existing filter that will take up to 90% of the load off of that filter.
- Add an incline vacuum gage for the bulk filter
- Add an inline vacuum gage for your existing filter.
If you do your own work all the above should be less than maybe $300 and the additional filter will bring your filter changes down by over 400% or more. This would be a good time to also renew any hoses or fitting in the fuel system that may be potentially annoying you. Here is the link to Tony's fuel filtration article....


Fuel Systems & Filtration - Seaboard Marine

ranger42c 01-13-2017 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lou_tribal (Post 513005)
Once again, thank you Ski!
Curently my filter is located on the ER wall, rear/right of the engine. There is a fuel valve to select fuel tank or close, then the filter is the following model:

Than the line is going to the fuel injection pump.
I do not think I have a lift pump or is it possible that the lift pump and fuel injection pump are all in one? In any case I have no pump before the filter or in between the filter and the injection pump.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lou_tribal (Post 513025)
I do not know the exact micron rating of the current filter. I know the cartridge replacement part but not the rating. This cartridge part is made by numerous makers like delphi, lucas, CAV, ACDelco and many more. Looks like it is a very common part.
The replacement parts I am using are from ACDelco and are model ACD51, I have a box of them. But the micron rating is mentionned nowhere.

Sounds like your on-engine secondary filter, including some fuel/water separation capability, is simply mounted off-engine... and you have no additional primary.

The link Ski posted in #7, with WIX replacement info, suggests it's 10 micron. That would seem to me to be much more likely than 2 micron, for that engine, built in that era.

Like others, think I'd consider adding a Racor (or similar) fuel/water separator, as a primary, before your current set-up... use 30 micron elements in that... and call it good.

-Chris

Lou_tribal 01-13-2017 11:03 AM

Indeed I am trying to improve what i think should be improved based on my readings and input from my fellow TF members.
I already have quite an extensive list of things to do, but nothing that would make my financial life in jeopardy more couple of bucks here and there.
In fact I noticed that if you do things by yourself it won't cost much to maintain improve a boat. Some parts may be a bit expensive but usually they are not the one you should change very often. The more expensive like for anything else is the man hours if you pay someone to do it.

Lou_tribal 01-13-2017 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranger42c (Post 513063)
Sounds like your on-engine secondary filter, including some fuel/water separation capability, is simply mounted off-engine... and you have no additional primary.

The link Ski posted in #7, with WIX replacement info, suggests it's 10 micron. That would seem to me to be much more likely than 2 micron, for that engine, built in that era.

Like others, think I'd consider adding a Racor (or similar) fuel/water separator, as a primary, before your current set-up... use 30 micron elements in that... and call it good.

-Chris

Thank you, I did not notice the edit from Ski. I will add the primary filter addition on my todo list.

Many thanks to all of you guys!

River Cruiser 01-13-2017 02:27 PM

If it has worked fine for 20 years I wouldn't worry about adding a second filter. If you intend on cruising areas where the fuel may be suspect of contamination then give a second filter consideration or possibly a Baja filter.


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