Trawler Forum

Trawler Forum (http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/)
-   Power Systems (http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s6/)
-   -   oil level risen (http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s6/oil-level-risen-28670.html)

North Baltic sea 10-18-2016 04:55 AM

oil level risen
 
I checking the oil level and oil risen from the oil stick maybe 2cm up normal level.

Can this be due to that the weather is could, we have seen here in 3-7 C degrees and I travel pretty short trips for 15-20 miles/about 2 hours at a time, or is it the question of a more serious problem?

Engine is Cummins qsb 5.9 380hv, warming up for about 20 minutes, the normal temperature 78 (C), the oil is the normal black ...

:confused:

gaston 10-18-2016 05:18 AM

Sorry but I think it may be advisable to have the oil analyzed for diesel contamination ..

Roger Long 10-18-2016 06:21 AM

Only three things cause the oil level to rise:

1) Diesel oil leaking into the crankcase.
2) Coolant or RW leaking into the crankcase (usually a head gasket problem)
3) The lube oil fairy adding oil in the middle of the night.

Suggest first sticking a plastic tube down the dipstick or cracking the drain plug to see if there is any water in the bottom of the sump. It will sit there and everything will be fine until it gets deep enough to get sucked into the oil pump and then....

North Baltic sea 10-18-2016 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Long (Post 489698)
Only three things cause the oil level to rise:

1) Diesel oil leaking into the crankcase.
2) Coolant or RW leaking into the crankcase (usually a head gasket problem)
3) The lube oil fairy adding oil in the middle of the night.

Suggest first sticking a plastic tube down the dipstick or cracking the drain plug to see if there is any water in the bottom of the sump. It will sit there and everything will be fine until it gets deep enough to get sucked into the oil pump and then....


:lol: i hope 3)

High Wire 10-18-2016 07:45 AM

How old are your exhaust risers?

North Baltic sea 10-18-2016 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Wire (Post 489712)
How old are your exhaust risers?


Orginal 2009

wyoboater 10-18-2016 08:42 AM

Water in the oil would be easily detectable. It's very visible on the dipstick. You said that the oil is it's normal black, so I seriously doubt any type of coolant or raw water contamination.........therefore, if in fact it's making it's own oil, I would suggest that it's diesel contamination.........first place that usually occurs is an injector problem. Just my .02 cents.

High Wire 10-18-2016 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by North Baltic sea (Post 489716)
Orginal 2009

Thats pretty young for a cracked riser so I would oil sample somewhere with a quick turnaround. The Caterpillar shop near me in NJ does it in less than 48 hrs. My guess is fuel.

sunchaser 10-18-2016 10:00 AM

NB

A few questions:

Are you warming the engine up while boat sits at the dock?
How many hours on engine and oil?
When -date- was the last time you changed the oil?
How frequently do you check the oil level?
Any black smoke showing up in exhaust or more soot on the transom than normal?
Any recent maintenance on engine, if so what?

North Baltic sea 10-18-2016 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunchaser (Post 489741)
NB

A few questions:

Are you warming the engine up while boat sits at the dock?
How many hours on engine and oil?
When -date- was the last time you changed the oil?
How frequently do you check the oil level?
Any black smoke showing up in exhaust or more soot on the transom than normal?
Any recent maintenance on engine, if so what?

Yes i am warming the engines about 5 minutes 900 rmp at the dock before out sea.

Engine total hours are about 630 and The oil is 2-3 months old, been driven about 1000 miles and about 180 hours. 1000 seamail the first 600 seamiles of time during the 3 days, when I drove the boat home from Germany, at an average speed of about 15 knots.

I am check oils In the first few weeks, every time before starting and now half the time before starting.

No black, white or blue smoke, No black paint

I do not have known, that the engines should be the subject of other than the normal period of maintenance, oils, filters, anodes, etc. (boating season about 6 months this area Europe)

The engine run is nice and power outputs are normal, this oil risens problem appeared just at the same time, when the temperatures dropped to below 3-10 C about 37-50 farenheit.

:nonono:

Ski in NC 10-18-2016 11:27 AM

Are you checking oil under the same conditions as always? Same amount of time after shutdown, etc? Oil hides in various places and takes time to drain back to sump. If engine sat a long time more drain back may have occurred.

A dab of oil on a paper towel may show fuel dilution in the form of a ring. Not exactly scientific, best if you have a dab from another engine to compare it to.

Diluted oil will also appear thin and readily drip off the stick.

Oil sample is the true test.

There is plumbing under the rocker cover that can leak, could be a real problem.

sunchaser 10-18-2016 12:35 PM

NB

What RPM was the engine running at 15 knots? Ski in a hard run would diesel cook out of oil?

Ski in NC 10-18-2016 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunchaser (Post 489775)
NB

What RPM was the engine running at 15 knots? Ski in a hard run would diesel cook out of oil?

Not much will cook out in a hard run, maybe some of the lighter fractions, but then they will likely condense in cooler regions thus remain in there.

You don't want to run an engine hard if it truly has fuel in the oil. Viscosity drops and bearings don't like it. A few % is normal, but a few cm rise is way more than a few %.

To the OP, be careful with this. I would not run it until high dilution is verified to not exist.

Irish Rambler 10-18-2016 02:49 PM

What make of engine ?
If it's a Ford it's fairly common problem due to either of these reasons.
1, The 'returns' (unused) diesel pipe runs between the injectors inside the rocker cover and the joins are brazed, one of the joins may be cracked and leaking oil into the fuel.
2, The diaphragm on the lift pump is perforated and leaking oil into the crankcase.


Water in the oil will emulsify and turn to creamy colour and consistency.
I hope this is helpful in identifying your problem.

Lepke 10-18-2016 06:29 PM

Common in engines with injector pumps is for the seal to fail between the pump and gear. Since the pump runs at very high pressure, fuel goes into the gear case and into the sump.
Don't run the engine under load until you determine the makeup of the oil.
While the lift pump diaphragm could allow fuel into the sump, I've never seen it. Most pumps have a vent so the fuel escape is on the outside and noticeable. a holdover from gas engines.

MYTraveler 10-18-2016 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Long (Post 489698)
Only three things cause the oil level to rise:

1) Diesel oil leaking into the crankcase.
2) Coolant or RW leaking into the crankcase (usually a head gasket problem)
3) The lube oil fairy adding oil in the middle of the night.

Suggest first sticking a plastic tube down the dipstick or cracking the drain plug to see if there is any water in the bottom of the sump. It will sit there and everything will be fine until it gets deep enough to get sucked into the oil pump and then....

There is a 4th possibility, at least in some cases. The transmission, which runs at a much higher pressure than crankcase pressures, may be forcing trans oil past the rear main seal and into the crankcase.

So, check your trans oil level -- if it is correspondingly down, you will have a pretty good clue.

IRENE 10-18-2016 07:54 PM

My Volvo Penta D4-260 frequently shows a difference in the oil level within the normal operating range.

I can check it after running for four days, and get a different reading each day. Perhaps if I were checking it exactly X hours after shutdown I would see similar results on a daily basis, but I am not that precise. I am just doing visual checks and pulling the 'stick in between running days. I prefer to do this in the evening after things cool down, yet leaving me with peace of mind that all is ready to go if necessary and/or quickly. My oil consumption is negligible and analysis (Blackstone) at 100-hour intervals is fine.

I applaud you for checking the oil and making the observations you have made. It seems like you are in-tune with your equipment. The advice of others to seek analysis seems prudent.

Good Luck

twistedtree 10-18-2016 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MYTraveler (Post 489892)
There is a 4th possibility, at least in some cases. The transmission, which runs at a much higher pressure than crankcase pressures, may be forcing trans oil past the rear main seal and into the crankcase.

So, check your trans oil level -- if it is correspondingly down, you will have a pretty good clue.

I'm pretty sure with the cummins this wouldn't be possible. There is the bell housing between the engine and gear, and any oil pushed out of the engine rear seal, or the trans front seal, would end up in the bell housing cavity and come out the drip holes at the bottom.

I think the first step, as others have mentioned, is to get an oil analysis done. That will tell you what the foreign fluid is, and put you on the right track to locating the leak.

North Baltic sea 10-19-2016 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ski in NC (Post 489762)
Are you checking oil under the same conditions as always? Same amount of time after shutdown, etc? Oil hides in various places and takes time to drain back to sump. If engine sat a long time more drain back may have occurred.

A dab of oil on a paper towel may show fuel dilution in the form of a ring. Not exactly scientific, best if you have a dab from another engine to compare it to.

Diluted oil will also appear thin and readily drip off the stick.

Oil sample is the true test.

There is plumbing under the rocker cover that can leak, could be a real problem.


This could be the idea, the timeline for the checks oil level.

Thanks for the paper test can give direction to give the answer.

North Baltic sea 10-19-2016 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunchaser (Post 489775)
NB

What RPM was the engine running at 15 knots? Ski in a hard run would diesel cook out of oil?


About 2550 rmp.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:46 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012