Layout question

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utazo89

utazo89

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
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185
Location
USA
More and more people are telling me that I am over my head, when I am looking for a larger boat to have a comfortable live-aboard layout. As a newbie, I am bitten by the large boat ' bug ', but it is changing. Many of the boats I looked were in the 50-55' range. Since my budget is tight, this results only very old, or very 'needy' boats. Reading the forum, I learn that smaller is better, when it comes to boats. OK, so I accept it. I do agree, the newer boat I can buy, the less headache I would possibly inherit. So, the latest direction is to find a boat with a strait layout inside. What I mean is, to have the salon, galley, settee, even the staterooms, at the same level. I am reading Mr. Pascoe's books now and at one his surveys he also burst out that the going up and down layouts are frustrating and he also prefers strait walkthrough arrangements. I tend to agree with him. My reasoning is, if the layout is strait, it looks more spacious, so a smaller size boat can be accommodating enough for live-aboard, even if the space has a tight feeling. Am I going wrong about this? Educate me, please! lol:banghead:
 
Pascoe's opinion on layout is simply his opinion. I can't think of anything in boat selection more personal than the interior layout. When you step aboard the boat with the right layout for you, you will know it. More importantly is how the SO likes it. When you do find the right boat, we can discuss the anchor since there is only one good one.
 
Boat manufacturers try to maximize space, every kind of space. Having all of your living space on one level is tough to do without losing a lot of usable volume. Due to the engine room being roughly in the middle of the boat, the height of the engine(s) dictate the height of the cabin sole. To maximize space fore and aft of the engine room, most will have steps down to a forward cabin and often steps down to an aft cabin. Sedans and Europa designs don't have the aft cabins (unless they are pretty big and have cabins below a flush deck) but still have steps down to a forward cabin. Down east designs with a dog house around the engine(s) maximize single level space, house boats and v-drive driven boats that have the engine room under the back deck are about the only designs that come to mind providing something close to a single level cabin. There is a 43' Pearson motor yacht with a long saloon and pretty low cabin sole which minimized the steps down to the forward cabin.
 
hmason said:
Pascoe's opinion on layout is simply his opinion. I can't think of anything in boat selection more personal than the interior layout. When you step aboard the boat with the right layout for you, you will know it. More importantly is how the SO likes it. When you do find the right boat, we can discuss the anchor since there is only one good one.
Click to expand...

Agree
It will be a personal preference and may be impacted by how you intend to use the boat.
One consideration I saw recently but never would have thought of...
if you cruise long distance and over night a separate pilot house / bridge deck could be important to limit light from other areas of the boat that are being occupied / used while cruising at night. If primarily a dock queen not so much
 
Hmason.

That is the problem, I did fall in love with a Canoe Cove 53' in Vancouver, BC. It did not work out. The broker is not really interested in dealing with me, even though I practically offered them the present asking price and using a buyer broker. Plus, some of the members here told me to run away from that boat.
1983 Canoe Cove Sedan Bridge Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
This layout looked perfect for me. Canadian made hull, inside helm, V-drive and CATs away from the stateroom, covered cockpit, davit solutions, spacious salon; were among the attractive points. The ER room is not standup, but it has some space for maintenance. But it is huge, LOA is 60, so mooring is a bankruptcy in Seattle.
Now, I could imagine a smaller, but similar boat, as the perfect layout for me. I did see a Tolly 44 in Oregon a week ago. It was beautiful, but two Crusades and tiny salon, because it is a 40' originally, but they added a 4' cockpit to it. Would have been without the cockpit, aft cabin, and maybe a pair of Lehmanns, I would have taken it.

What do you mean by talking about the ' anchor '?
 
Bacchus

Very good point. I do agree with the lights/pilothouse comment, as I am planning to do long distance cruising many years from now.
 
"What do you mean by talking about the ' anchor '?"

When you find the boat you want, ask this forum what anchor it should have and you will find out what I meant.
 
I suggest actually going on different boats in your price range and seeing what appeals to you and what doesn't. I understand what you are saying about constantly going up and down to different levels but remember, a boat is a compromise. Sometimes this gets more room.
 
You have received a lot of sound advice. Just remember even a very well maintained older boat, over the period of your ownership, is going to have lots, and I mean lots, of maintenance issues. The bigger the boat the more it will cost to maintaining and operate. So both size and age need to be incorporated in your annual operating budged for whatever boat you finally buy. The purchase price is only one part of the total equation. Get a boat that you will enjoy and doesn't break the bank.

Good luck.
 
Interior layout is such a personal issue, it will be difficult to come to a consensus in a forum. Also you'll probably find suggestions and guidance that directly contradicts your own opinion.

That said, interior spaces are something that I've done quite a bit of research and looking into for the past few weeks; we are in the early stages of shopping for our next boat, something in the 38'-48' range, that will be our 2nd home and getaway on the water. We are a family of 3, with a pre-teen daughter, plus a dog.

We have come to the conclusion that separate living spaces, covered for the Pacific NW, are pretty much a requirement. This can be a pilothouse, as mentioned earlier, or an enclosed aft, or a sunbridge, or.... We're thinking more for at the dock than anything else -- similar to a house, there are times when you want (or need, as I can work remotely) some privacy and don't want to be in the party room.

We've had 4 "real" boats, everything from a 27' sailboat to our current 32' trawler. All have had plusses and minuses, but good use of vertical space is something I come to look for -- Bayliner for example, did a remarkable job "stacking" living spaces. Some people say this is "cramming" stuff into a boat too small for it, but I find it to be valuable. Ladders bad, but stairs or steps good.
 
hmason

You are killing me with this puzzle! hehehe
Maybe I will go to Heaven, before I will know the answer to the ' anchor ' meaning.... lol
I need to find that darn boat fast....
 
Paul M.

I know you are correct with your comment. I am budgeting 15-20% of the purchase value/year for those expenses.
 
WesK

I did go, and I will continue to go, to visit different sizes, layouts. My list so far is: 36/42/44/47/50/53'. All very different in many ways.
 
IMO, a boat layout that is primarily for a live aboard is not the best layout for distance cruising.

Folks can and do live aboard small boats. Those boats are probably not what you would consider "comfortable". At your budget, you can buy a bigger boat and spend every waking moment fixing it up for your eventual plans, or you can buy a smaller boat and spend every other waking moment fixing it to suit your future plans.

Look at a lot of boats in your price range. You won't know until you want on board what the size really feels like.
 
mattcab

Ladders are OK with me. Steps I try to avoid.
I don't mind crammed staterooms, one head/shower, as I am a single guy.
I do want to stretch my legs out in the salon, when I can; cook my meal and store my food for less grocery shopping; be covered from the weather, when I finally decide to head out and do my long range cruising.
I don't want to switch to another boat 10 years from now, when I retire. I want to fix and learn everything I can. I have 8-10 years for this. I will stay away from open waters for several years and be in protected marinas, but when I am free to go, I want to get out. So, it is a mix, what I want from a boat. Be comfortable for now. Be safe later. They layout is important to me for these two reasons.
I read and ask questions to learn. I make mistakes and learn. I have hopes that I will find my ' perfect ' boat. I know it does not exist, but I am still looking for it.
 
Max Simmons

The run away suggestion was not aimed towards Canoe Coves. It was about this boat specifically. I do not know the real reason, except some members here are lot more knowledgeable than me and might see things I don't.
Perhaps, I was too naive about the possible maintenance issues with the twin 3208 turbos, V-drive, electronic control, etc. Why spend 2K on a survey, when there is known issues with this configuration? I think this was the point.
I read the Canoe Cove hulls are very good quality. This is what started my interest. Perhaps, a smaller Canoe, with different engines can be a good option? Again, I really liked the layout. It fit my present and future plans well.
 
utazo89 said:
Ladders are OK with me. Steps I try to avoid.
Click to expand...

See, opinions. :) ;)

We avoid ladders because they are difficult to use when you are carrying something, and they are impossible for the dog.

utazo89 said:
I don't mind crammed staterooms, one head/shower, as I am a single guy.
I do want to stretch my legs out in the salon, when I can; cook my meal and store my food for less grocery shopping; be covered from the weather, when I finally decide to head out and do my long range cruising.
I don't want to switch to another boat 10 years from now, when I retire. I want to fix and learn everything I can. I have 8-10 years for this. I will stay away from open waters for several years and be in protected marinas, but when I am free to go, I want to get out. So, it is a mix, what I want from a boat. Be comfortable for now. Be safe later. They layout is important to me for these two reasons.
I read and ask questions to learn. I make mistakes and learn. I have hopes that I will find my ' perfect ' boat. I know it does not exist, but I am still looking for it.
Click to expand...

From this description, I think the boats you are looking at will suit you well.... that Ponderosa you posted above is especially intriguing.

Good luck! This is the fun part, so enjoy it.
 
For a good nights sleep , learn far more about boat construction.

Your sleep will be of a different kind if it comes from 4 months of 14 hour days of repair , or relaxing days enjoying the scenery.

The boat choice is more important than how the sheets are fitted.
 
I got bit by the big boat "bug" at least 60 years ago and it never left. If you're living aboard and cruising, the bigger boat allows more comfort, storage for everything you own, decent appliances, huge food storage, better ride, walk in engine room, and more safety in bad weather.
If you cruise, you have more engine maintenance. It's nice to have the room of a stand up engine room and you can fit in almost all the noise making items in a sound proofed space. My generators are in an enclosures, inside the engine room, so make little noticeable noise. Outside I only hear the splash of exhaust water.
The only real down side to me is more expense. If I stayed in a marina it would be $1000 a month and day rates are about $80. Winter is at a private dock. Cruising I always anchor and have a faster shore boat for supplies. There's a lot to be said in favor of having a moat around your home.
 
Look at a lot of boats. Spend significant time on them, walking sitting lying in the beds trying the showers studying the bridge and er.

If you haven't looked at 50 boats you aren't ready to make a decision about livability.

Then come back with questions on features and mechanicals. e.g. I wouldn't own V drives, too hard to acess.
 
FF

Do you have recommended resources about construction?
Is this about the hull, or the whole boat?
What boat would you recommend?
 
Lepke.

Would you buy an older, but larger boat? I know the shape and maintenance records can decide this question, but is it a good idea to go big?
 
bayview

I would love to look at more boats, if I could. Sometimes the distance, or time, is limiting this desire.
Also, brokers are not really happy to accommodate guys, who are just looking. I understand they work for money, too. So, I am not complaining. I just don't like the feel that I am wasting their time.
Boat shows are good sources, I know. There is only so many boats shows a year. So, far I did Anacortes Trawler and the Lake Union Float shows. Lot of beautiful boats, but not many older ones, which is my price bracket. Looking is fun and I enjoy it. I just don't like to be pushed into making offers.
 
utazo89 said:
You are killing me with this puzzle! hehehe
Maybe I will go to Heaven, before I will know the answer to the ' anchor ' meaning.... lol
Click to expand...

Just do a search on anchor threads here, and you'll see. No matter which one your boat comes with, it'll be the wrong shape, the wrong size, and too small. Paraphrasing Hop-Car :)


utazo89 said:
Ladders are OK with me. Steps I try to avoid.

I don't want to switch to another boat 10 years from now, when I retire. I want to fix and learn everything I can. I have 8-10 years for this.
Click to expand...

As another poster said, stairs can make it much easier to get to the bridge with a tray full of drinks and hors d'oeuvres. Or even one drink. :)

A thought about eventual switching: You'll learn a lot on your next boat. Part of that will be about maintenance and service and so forth, for that boat... but part of it will also be about how you like to use the boat, how well the layout suits you, how the various component systems suit you, what you might (come to) wish for, what might be "better" as your own thinking matures...

So I'd respectfully suggest you might want to think about this as a path or evolution, not as a single acquisition, one and done.

Might work out that way, of course. But then again...

-Chris
 
bayview

Here is one I visited recently. I liked the space inside and the accommodations. But when I looked the engines spaced between narrow walls and only access from the top, I was not convinced anymore. Tell me what do you think about maintenance on these engines in this type of ER? The engines are in two separate section, not together.

1986 Marine Trader 50 Motor Yacht Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I also asked the broker about the location, where was the boat built? Based on my readings, all the MT boats are made in Taiwan and imported by the company in NJ. But he insisted that it was build in NJ, so I did not question him.
Other thing I did not like is the lack of walk around deck and there is only one way to access the flybridge from inside, behind the helm.
 
Definitely built in The Far East. Has all the hallmarks including the carved doors. Nice looking boat though. Except for the awful engine room spaces. Decent engines.


Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum
 
From observation: Starting out on a 50' yacht will incur thumping, bumping and banging needing repairs of a more serious nature than if you start at (say for arguments sake) 30' or 36'.

Your desired deck plan (thrudeck) will mean generally more windage because of the higher sides. This will add to the bumps and bangs as you learn how to run the boat. Generally the heavier a boat is the more momentum it has to whack things in an unhelpful way.
Also the longer boat will have fewer selections for finding a slip.

Regarding what boat to buy, in addition to your 'useful' requirements the hull 'core' condition needs to be assessed. Water leaks into the hull core are VERY expensive to fix. Some (most) aren't worth repairing.

Nobody here can look at an internet ad and tell you 'that's a good deal'. Each boat has to be checked out.

Boats are like the singles bar. What you take home at night often isn't what you wake up with after you get them home and turn on the lights.
 
Layout is not only a personal choice but IF you are considering living aboard, then it enters the realms of climate considerations.
Most boats are not designed to be a heated live-aboard in northern regions, in which case your decisions to layout must also place a huge consideration on how well the layout lends itself to living aboard in freezing temps.

I bought a Wittholz 40 Passage 30 some years ago, because (other than having a ballasted offshore pedigree mentioned in Beebe's Bible) it is all on one level, aside from the forward stateroom being 4 steps down. With bad knees, I only go down there to sleep, so it's all good.

While some have mentioned here about using every possible space to please the usual weekend boaters and family cruisers, a well found offshore trawler with liveaboard features will have lots of unused space for tools, spares, work space, easy to get around insulating water tanks, etc....
Interiors that extort every inch of space are usually too cut up anyway in our size of boats. So, worry not about a boat with one level and lots of bilge space - you will find stuff to fill all that up with.
 
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