Righting swivel for Rocna anchor

[nwboater]

Can anyone tell me where I can locate a vendor for a so-called "righting swivel"? It looks like this:

 

[Nomad Willy]

That's clever. It's obvious how it works. Many here could be interested in this.

Question though is why is it aimed at the Rocna?

 

[Peter B]

You're right Eric. That could well be the perfect answer to the fact many anchors occasionally insist on coming up orse-about...and no loss of strength, (as long as that swivel join is robust enough), or anything to catch on the bowsprit either. Even Marin would be hard-pressed to find fault...

Actually, it occurs to me, that really, with that curved shape making it virtually certain, if one paused a sec at that point of the curve, that the anchor would come up the right way anyway, that a swivel at the chain end is virtually superfluous, wouldn't you think..?

 

[Rossigal]

might be my ignorance talking but does that replace he Manson Supreme rock slot? I have the Manson and love it. Never had a problem with it coming up bass ackwards or orse about but I'm sure that will happen to me down the rode. How much does it swivel? I'm interested to learn a little, not trying to be too funny.

 

[rochepoint]

You can get something similar from Anchor Right called a flip link.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Haha Peter ....
Looks like your guys are already on top of it.
No need for the bling either.
Not superfluous at all. When it comes up 180 out the bent bar needs to rotate .... no I think I see your point Peter. The bent bar will just rotate the chain between the bow roller and the gypsy. On some boats that distance could be short and the swivel may be needed.

Rossigal,
Can't see that it has anything to do w the rock slot.

 

[Rossigal]

Thanks Mike, think you just answered the question.

 

[FlyWright]

I'd be careful about getting the wrong model. As all salty dogs know, anchors from the southern hemisphere (SH) tend to favor the CCW (anti-clockwise for you non-Yanks) rotation when retrieved. Obviously, northern hemisphere (NH) anchors rotate the opposite direction. The SH model compensates for this CCW bias and works great on SH boats. If you mistakenly install the SH model on a NH boat, the anchor swivel may be grossly aggravated.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

Ocean Blue Twist Swivel Anchor Chain Connector Stainless Steel - Default


It's called a Google or Googling.

 

[REAL MOUNTIE]

Swivels
Swivels are a popular accessory helpful in reducing rode twist and allowing
the anchor to be rotated upon retrieval. A swivel should be rated to the
breaking strength of the chain (not the working load), and care must be
taken to avoid cheap, poorly engineered, and badly built designs.
When installing, be sure the swivel cannot be subjected to a veering
load and can rotate properly. We do not recommend attaching the fork
of a swivel directly to the anchor shank. It is safer to put a few links of
chain between the swivel and the anchor. If this is done, an articulating
“ball-and-joint” design is pointless, and an in-line rotating design will be of
simpler construction and probably a better solution.
For more information, please consult the article on swivels on the Rocna
Knowledge Base.

Source: http://www.rocna.com/sites/default/files/pdf/rocna-anchors-user's-guide_en.pdf

 

[ksanders]

That looks like a non cogging self righting swivel, specifically made for the Rocna anchors.

The reason that one is so poplar with Rocna owners is that since the Rocna wont set or hold, when you drag it around the anchorage it won't clog up.

Rolls
Out
Continuously
New
Anchor

 

[Peter B]

Kevin, that was positively naughty...:lol:

 

[twistedtree]

I have found that a chain groove in the bow roller does a much better job of orienting the anchor on retrieval that a swivel, and since you can use regular shackles, it is far less prone to failure. And I'll bet you could get a groove machined in your roller for the same cost or less than you would pay for a swivel.

The grove ensures that the chain pays out and retrieves without twisting. When properly shackled, and your anchor comes up, gravity causes it to always rotate to the right orientation. Ours comes up correctly 100% of the time.

I found a swivel to actually be as much a part of the problem with anchors coming up the wrong way as they were a solution for correcting alignment. Because they swivel, they allow the anchor to lose it's orientation, so it then comes up backwards or sideways. And I when it did come up wrong, I didn't find it any easy feat to get it straightened out. After a few uses the swivel tends to bind up with sand and mud making swiveling difficult. And when you try to rotate the anchor, the chain just wants to twist rather than the swivel swiveling. So I kinda thought they sucked.

 

[FlyWright]

That looks like a non cloggingf righting swivel, specifically made for the Rocna anchors.

The reason that one is so poplar with Rocna owners is that since the Rocna wont set or hold, when you drag it around the anchorage it won't clog up.

Rolls
Out
Continuously
New
Anchor

Isn't ROCNA just a misspelled and backward spelled ANCHOR?

 

[nwboater]

Manyboats: My Willard 40 carries a 55kg Rocna and I'm frustrated by the way it will often turn "backwards", making it difficult to haul over the bow roller. I found a ready made "righting swivel" called the Twist sold by Italian Osculati Marine but not sold in the US or Canada. I may have to have one made custom. Any leads to a retailer will be appreciated.

 

[REAL MOUNTIE]

http://www.osculati.com/fr/cat/Scheda.aspx?id=245

United States and Canada
Italian Marine Supply
1850 SE 17th Street, Suite 103
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33316 Tel +1 954 606 6633
Fax +1 954 919 1468
info@italianmarinesupply.com

OSCULATI: Boating supplies - Accessori per la nautica

 

[ksanders]

Isn't ROCNA just a misspelled and backward spelled ANCHOR?

Yes, upside down. Just like when your anchor turns turtle.

 

[Peter B]

Manyboats: My Willard 40 carries a 55kg Rocna and I'm frustrated by the way it will often turn "backwards", making it difficult to haul over the bow roller. I found a ready made "righting swivel" called the Twist sold by Italian Osculati Marine but not sold in the US or Canada. I may have to have one made custom. Any leads to a retailer will be appreciated.

Did you not see Capt. Bill's posted link..?

Ocean Blue Twist Swivel Anchor Chain Connector Stainless Steel - Default

 

[caltexflanc]

Or go deluxe. These things work great, as they should for the price!

ULTRA Flip Swivel – Ultra Marine West / Quickline

 

[FlyWright]

Yes, upside down. Just like when your anchor turns turtle.

Never have that problem with my inexpensive-and very-effective Bruce-knockoff Lewmar Claw. Sure glad I didn't waste all that money on an upside-down Sarca or Rocna!!

 

[sunchaser]

I have found that a chain groove in the bow roller does a much better job of orienting the anchor on retrieval that a swivel, and since you can use regular shackles, it is far less prone to failure. And I'll bet you could get a groove machined in your roller for the same cost or less than you would pay for a swivel.

The grove ensures that the chain pays out and retrieves without twisting. When properly shackled, and your anchor comes up, gravity causes it to always rotate to the right orientation. Ours comes up correctly 100% of the time.

I found a swivel to actually be as much a part of the problem with anchors coming up the wrong way as they were a solution for correcting alignment. Because they swivel, they allow the anchor to lose it's orientation, so it then comes up backwards or sideways. And I when it did come up wrong, I didn't find it any easy feat to get it straightened out. After a few uses the swivel tends to bind up with sand and mud making swiveling difficult. And when you try to rotate the anchor, the chain just wants to twist rather than the swivel swiveling. So I kinda thought they sucked.

100% correct, IMHO of course.

My roller is grooved as well as helps on alignment. When at the bow and using the foot controls, watching the anchor rotate allows the timing for the last pull to be nicely aligned to have the shank enter the groove. If all else fails to align, a nudge on the anchor with a boat hook does the trick.

Gave up on high end swivels a few years ago as the really good ones (rating and design wise) are expensive and likely the weak link in any event.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Peter,
I'm not a fan of Rocna but Kevin has indeed been naughty. Perhaps that's why Rex wasn't pleased when we called his SARCA a scoop. He's really into anchors scooping or not scooping up the bottom. The SARCA isn't a scoop anchor because it dos'nt scoop. And Rex makes a point of it. But I said I would'nt call it a scoop anymore.

On this twist thing I'm w twistedtree. With a username like twistedtree he should know something about it. I think he does. I don't have a chain rode so I can't check it out but w a bow roller that has a groove how can the chain not go down and up orientated the same way? Of course things happen but usually things don't happen. I suspect the chain should come up very dependably oriented the same way all the time w the groove in the roller. Tom good input - thanks.

So that seems to make this twist thing not needed. What do you think ... especially nwboater .. the OP. I still think it's clever and simple and I like it ..... but think also that it's not required.

Al,
Is that true? ROCNA-ANCHOR? Had'nt hear that. Wonder if it was intent by Rocna or some guy started it and many are say'in it? Intentional or accidental?

Kevin,
Does the Rocna really clog that bad?

George,
I'd say go less delux .... the Anchor Right product.

By the way I see the twist product in the
OP is shown w the shackle pin setup for the anchor hole.

Rossigal,
Should'nt swivel at all if you have the grooved roller and it sounds like you do.

 

[rwidman]

All I can say is that many times I have seen advice not to use an anchor swivel. Apparently it's the weak link in the system and a likely point of failure.

 

[ranger58sb]

I don't have a chain rode so I can't check it out but w a bow roller that has a groove how can the chain not go down and up orientated the same way? Of course things happen but usually things don't happen. I suspect the chain should come up very dependably oriented the same way all the time w the groove in the roller.

The symptom is quite common with a rope/chain combo rode. As soon as all the chain is off the roller, all bets are off.

All I can say is that many times I have seen advice not to use an anchor swivel. Apparently it's the weak link in the system and a likely point of failure.

I've read lots of that. When you can find first-hand reports (as opposed to Internet repeats) with accompanying factoids... many of the examples turn out to be with swivels that were invented before sliced bread, made out of crap, too small, or installed incorrectly.

Some of the newer swivels -- new designs, good materials, decent manufacturing -- are apparently stronger than the chain they might be attached to.

-Chris

 

[Nomad Willy]

Ranger I can't belive that didn't occur to me being so pro line over chain. Good call and I remember that applies to you.

But most here use enough chain in their combination rode that they seldom pay out any line. That's probably more prevalent on the right coast. Anchoring in 50' of water isn't unusual here. That would require 200' of chain for a 4-1 scope. That's more or less an all chain rode w a nylon tag line.

A significant advantage to anchoring deep is that you probably won't have much company. Lots of swinging room but more needed obviously. And there is little light down there so seaweed, grass and other growing things are rare. Ideal for Danforth anchors.

 

[ksanders]

Never have that problem with my inexpensive-and very-effective Bruce-knockoff Lewmar Claw. Sure glad I didn't waste all that money on an upside-down Sarca or Rocna!!

we both tried, but no one is biting today.

 

[markpierce]

That looks like a non cogging self righting swivel, specifically made for the Rocna anchors.

The reason that one is so poplar with Rocna owners is that since the Rocna wont set or hold, when you drag it around the anchorage it won't clog up.

Rolls
Out
Continuously
New
Anchor

And most all of you said the Rocna was the perfect anchor? Thankfully, haven't bought into that.

 

[twistedtree]

I don't have a chain rode so I can't check it out but w a bow roller that has a groove how can the chain not go down and up orientated the same way? Of course things happen but usually things don't happen. I suspect the chain should come up very dependably oriented the same way all the time w the groove in the roller. Tom good input - thanks.

So that seems to make this twist thing not needed.

Exactly!! Once the anchor is off the bottom, the weight of the anchor pulls the chain tight and it straightens right out, then comes up exactly as it should every time.

It's possible for the chain to skip the grove and get a 1/4 twists in it, but in my experience that only happens if you are winching it in from and extreme side angle, which you shouldn't be doing anyway.

This of course only works with an all-chain rode.

You could get a grove machined in your roller for way less than the $300 to $700 you would pay for a swivel.

 

[twistedtree]

I've read lots of that. When you can find first-hand reports (as opposed to Internet repeats) with accompanying factoids... many of the examples turn out to be with swivels that were invented before sliced bread, made out of crap, too small, or installed incorrectly.

Some people I know just lost their anchor in Port Stanley, Falkland Islands due to a swivel failure. They had just returned from South Georgia Island. Imagine if they had lost it at South Georgia where they were regularly anchoring in 40 kt winds and the is no help or assistance for 800 miles.

 

[FlyWright]

I find that 8-ply Brait does not introduce the twist that a 3-strand twist rode would. Especially when I use 120 ft of chain and maybe only 60-80 ft of line.

I never thought much about that center groove in my rollers. Eureka!! Of course they work like that! Thanks for that new perspective, Peter!! Always learning something new...that's part of why I love boating.