Trawler Forum

Trawler Forum (http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/)
-   Electrical and Electronics & Navigation (http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s4/)
-   -   Gen 3 Radar (http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s4/gen-3-radar-25454.html)

markpierce 04-02-2016 10:19 PM

I'm mostly interested in under five-mile range.

http://www.trawlerforum.com/attachme...6ff53acb8f.jpg

Peter B 04-03-2016 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistedtree (Post 429430)
I've owned both 4G and conventional 4KW, both 24" domes. I was really unimpressed with the 4G, and found nothing useful that it did better than the 4kw dome, and many things that it did worse.
The 4G looks and sounds great on paper, but in practice a small conventional digital radar performs much better. Since my experiment with the 4G I have outfitted two boats, and with both I went back to conventional digital radar.***

Twisted, I don't doubt what you say...and I have never own RADAR, and now never will, although I would have loved it to 'play' with, but what bothers me is the fact that as Broadband 3G, and now 4G, is only a relatively recent invention, and I know roughly how long you've had the Nordy, how on earth have you had time to do this***? Are you sure the types you are comparing it to are the broadband 3 & 4G the rest are talking about..? My reading about it is they perform better than you describe, that's all...

One other claimed benefit no-one has mentioned is the much lower power output, and therefore power requirement, and the fact they are therefore much safer to be near while the RADAR is operating, something often quite tricky on smaller vessels.

psneeld 04-03-2016 06:25 AM

Post #4

"The big difference is close aboard...less than 100 feet or so they really shine and maybe out to 300 or so feet they have a tiny edge. Past that ,the same till you get out 15 miles or so for the 3G where regular radar seems better and the 4G is good but not better out to 30 or so."

Post #13


"yes, 4G can detect the boat next to you in a slip, but who cares. Even in the worst fog you can see beyond the close-in blind spot on conventional radar (about 75'). To me it's much more important to see things from a distance and as they come closer. Having crystal clear vision as I hit them is not very useful. And from 75' and to about 1/2 mile, I have found the 4kw dome to be as good in all ways as the 4G."


Pretty similar for "general opinions"....

what_barnacles 04-05-2016 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psneeld (Post 429371)
I just use a radar app on a smart phone that blows boat radar away

well? Inquiring minds wanna know. :flowers:

psneeld 04-05-2016 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by what_barnacles (Post 430774)
well? Inquiring minds wanna know. :flowers:

lots of them....just pick one you like.

I use MyRadar because it loads fast.

Capt.Bill11 04-05-2016 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter B (Post 429767)

One other claimed benefit no-one has mentioned is the much lower power output, and therefore power requirement, and the fact they are therefore much safer to be near while the RADAR is operating, something often quite tricky on smaller vessels.

Urban myth.

http://www.bcmea.com/CMS_Content/HS_..._June_2013.pdf

twistedtree 04-05-2016 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter B (Post 429767)
Twisted, I don't doubt what you say...and I have never own RADAR, and now never will, although I would have loved it to 'play' with, but what bothers me is the fact that as Broadband 3G, and now 4G, is only a relatively recent invention, and I know roughly how long you've had the Nordy, how on earth have you had time to do this***? Are you sure the types you are comparing it to are the broadband 3 & 4G the rest are talking about..? My reading about it is they perform better than you describe, that's all...

One other claimed benefit no-one has mentioned is the much lower power output, and therefore power requirement, and the fact they are therefore much safer to be near while the RADAR is operating, something often quite tricky on smaller vessels.


It was definitely a Simrad 4G broadband, and a Simrad TX10s 10kw pulse radar that I initially installed on the nordy. At the time the 4G had been out for a good 2 years. The firmware running in them is still dated 2012, and I commissioned in 2014, so that gives some sense of it's age at the time. At the time Simrad was the only company with this type of radar. Now it's available from everyone. I have no idea how the other vendors' products perform, only Simrad because that's the only one I've used. And as a slight aside, broadband radar has actually been around for a very long time. It was invented about the same time pulse radar was invented back in the 40s. It's availability in the recreational market is what's new.

It's human nature to herd around what you "believe" is true, and in my opinion that's largely the case with the Simrad 4G radar. I too really believed all that I read when I bought the 4G, but in using it came to see that it performed quite differently, and had some other unspoken down sides that I found to be quite significant. Of course the marketing brochures are silent on those topics.

Power consumption is one of those "facts" that just keeps getting circulated over and over again, but in reality the power consumption is NOT much different. I think it's been discussed elsewhere on this site, but as I recall the 4G power consumption is around 20W and a Furuno 4kw dome is 24W. It's less, but of very little significance.

As for time, I installed the two pulse radars on the nordy almost exactly a year ago, detailed in the blog. I also just installed another 4KW dome on a 28' open boat.

I should be clear that I don't necessarily have an issue with broadband technology, or chirp, or swept frequency, or whatever you want to call it. It's all the same concept, and it very clever. I think as in most products, it all comes down to the implementation, and some are good while others are not. I'd love to get my hands on the broadband radars from the other vendors to see how they work.

I think it's really unfortunate that there is no good source for objective and thorough test data on marine navigation products. Magazines just repackage the press releases and brochures provided by the manufacturers. Believe me, I spent years feeding them the stuff. Panbo is a slight improvement, but not much. There's just very little good critical review out there.

Peter B 04-06-2016 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 (Post 430799)

WELL, BUGGER ME, Capt. Bill...I'M SHATTERED..!

Oh, and thanks for the explanation Twisted...I knew there'd be one.

You learn something new every day. I'm still disappointed I'll never get to play with RADAR.

tedted 04-09-2016 11:01 AM

Hey folks, Thanks for the input. I decided to up the budget a touch and go with Raymarine's new quantum CHIRP Radar and E7 7" display. I'll find out if it was a bad move I guess. From what little I could find it stands with the Simrad gen 4 pretty much.
The main reason I went with the Raymarine is they seem to be in the forefront with the use of Wi Fi and Bluetooth as near as I can tell. The idea of using an inexpensive tablet as another multifunction display really appeals to me. Especially being wireless. The E7 also ties to smartphones so you can have a remote viewer in your pocket. Don't know why I'd need it but who knows. Thanks again...

Donsan 06-14-2016 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedted (Post 431877)
Hey folks, Thanks for the input. I decided to up the budget a touch and go with Raymarine's new quantum CHIRP Radar and E7 7" display. I'll find out if it was a bad move I guess. From what little I could find it stands with the Simrad gen 4 pretty much.
The main reason I went with the Raymarine is they seem to be in the forefront with the use of Wi Fi and Bluetooth as near as I can tell. The idea of using an inexpensive tablet as another multifunction display really appeals to me. Especially being wireless. The E7 also ties to smartphones so you can have a remote viewer in your pocket. Don't know why I'd need it but who knows. Thanks again...

Would you have anything to report on how well the Raymarine Quantum radar works?

makobuilders 06-16-2016 02:45 AM

Radar power
 
How significant has anyone found the power output to be in real life usage of their radars? Since the boats that we generally use will typically mount the antenna at 15-20 feet high, range is limited. So the difference between 4 kW versus 6, 12 or 25 kW I suppose is going to affect punching through rain. Does it greatly affect definition, is it really worth spending the extra money on all that power?

AKDoug 06-16-2016 12:36 PM

I have 3G, and was a radarman in the Navy. The broadband is great close up, and for finding large ships if you are near shipping lanes, but is pretty much useless in my experience past about 3 miles out. Even land masses don't show correctly 10 miles away and often don't show well even 5 miles away.

If I were going offshore I wouldn't consider broadband alone as acceptable radar. It is great in fog, close up and finding an anchorage in the dark and poor weather. It is nothing like "real" radar with 20-30 mile range and a beam that can damage you if you stand in the transmit periphery.

You get what you pay for...

Donsan 06-17-2016 07:34 AM

What I am really interested in is how well the WiFi works transmitting to the MFD and/or iPad or PC.

cappy208 07-17-2016 02:32 PM

Jumping on a RADAR topic: Have any of you had a dome mounted on the front of a flybridge and then changed it up on a mast? Any difference in pic? Worth it for a clear pic behind you? I'm wondering about the need for a clear pic aft, when these seem to be just 'pick your way home' through the harbor quality radars. I was wondering about trying the dome initially IN the flybridge and seeing how much performance is lost through the glass.

The Quantum Chirp seems to put the Simrad to bed. And I am not fond of Simrad product support anyway.

bashu 05-02-2017 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Wire (Post 429337)
Only Simrad/Lowrance makes the "3G" radar which is the base unit of their broadband type radar. The others make basic versions of "standard" radar that has been used for years. If you have no ties to older equipment to match up, then go for the Simrad/Lowrance 3G.

what mount Di you use?

cappy208 05-02-2017 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donsan (Post 452422)
What I am really interested in is how well the WiFi works transmitting to the MFD and/or iPad or PC.



Well, Not having broken out another B.O.A.T. Buck for a Chirp (since I had to buy a new shaft) I can't comment on the radar wifi.

But I can comment on the plotter wifi to IPad, IPhone.

The raymarine display is great in sunlight. The iPad display just isn't to the same standards. My work around is to use the iPad only down at the salon helm. The ray marine touchscreen is WAY more visible in sun, and outdoors.

Although it is not clear, the manual states you can wifi connect "A" remote to the primary unit via wifi. I have not purchased the chirp radar yet, Am hoping that I can connect wifi the scanner AND the second display both wirelessly. I put in a question on the ray marine forum. Not only did I not get a reply, raymarine completely dumped the forum!

There are two apps. One is RayRemote . The other is rayview. As the name implies, The remote lets you use touchscreen iPad to operate the main display. But I find it lags. Good as backup, or extra display. But nothing like the real screen. The view is just that. What is displayed in the real screen is just shown on the iPad.

I found the iPhone to be too small to be useful.

johnrupp 05-02-2017 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cappy208 (Post 549534)
Well, Not having broken out another B.O.A.T. Buck for a Chirp (since I had to buy a new shaft) I can't comment on the radar wifi.

But I can comment on the plotter wifi to IPad, IPhone.

The raymarine display is great in sunlight. The iPad display just isn't to the same standards. My work around is to use the iPad only down at the salon helm. The ray marine touchscreen is WAY more visible in sun, and outdoors.

Although it is not clear, the manual states you can wifi connect "A" remote to the primary unit via wifi. I have not purchased the chirp radar yet, Am hoping that I can connect wifi the scanner AND the second display both wirelessly. I put in a question on the ray marine forum. Not only did I not get a reply, raymarine completely dumped the forum!

There are two apps. One is RayRemote . The other is rayview. As the name implies, The remote lets you use touchscreen iPad to operate the main display. But I find it lags. Good as backup, or extra display. But nothing like the real screen. The view is just that. What is displayed in the real screen is just shown on the iPad.

I found the iPhone to be too small to be useful.



forum.raymarine.com is up and running right now.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:38 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012