Replacing the Holding Tank Starting Tomorrow-Wish Me luck!

[HeadMistress]

Tidahapah wrote:Peggy with the discharge from the Electro Scan going to a holding tank will it require cross flow ventilation or will the discharge liquid be smell free.

The discharge should be odor-free when it leaves the ES--in fact, odor is an indication that the waste isn't being treated...but although it reduces bacteria count to <10/100 ml, if even ONE li'l ol' bacterium survives, it's gonna multiply into zillions in the tank very quickly, especially in hot weather.* So unless the tank is well enough ventilated to keep it aerobic, it's gonna stink whether waste is treated before going into it or not.*

However, I'd rethink sending everything to the tank, 'cuz the discharge from a treatment device MUST go directly overboard for it to be "treated waste."* If it goes into a tank instead, for the very reason I described above it ceases to be treated waste...it becomes no different from waste that goes into the tank directly from the toilet...and you cannot legally dump the tank anywhere that you can't dump a tank of raw waste.* So sending it all to the tank first defeats any advantage to having a treatment device.

As for venting the tank, cross ventilation may not be the best answer or even necessary. A single 1"-1.5" short straight vent line to a thru-hull that faces forward can accomplish more.

Email me, we can discuss specifics of an installation that'll work best for you.

AllanY wrote:I have a Lectrasan on Nevia and when I fitted the holding tank I fitted a vent however there is more smell coming from the shower tank than from the toilet system.

Shower TANK?* Not just a sump?* Hooboy...gray water tanks are a nightmare to maintain!* Frequent pumpout and thorough rinsing out are about the only thing you can do for 'em.

However, if it IS just a shower sump, keeping clean and odor free is actually easy...just about the only maintenance job on a boat that requires no manual labor:* Once a week when it can stand at least overnight--or just before leaving the boat (it can stay in the sump indefinitely without harm) empty it, then run enough clean water down the drain to fill it about 1/3 full.* Squirt 2-3 oz of Raritan C.P. down the drain.* http://www.raritaneng.com/products/cleaning_maintenance/cleans_potties.html

C.P. is a bio-enzymatic cleaner that Raritan only markets as a toilet bowl cleaner, but it's also the best sump and drain cleaner on the planet, because it not only destroys odor on contact, but the enzymes in it "eat" hair, soap scum, grease, body oils that build up in drains and cause sumps to turn into primordial soups.*

koliver wrote:Peggy: What you say about wear on the impeller sounds a lot like, "don't think you can actually use that pump to self-prime, as you are wearing out the impeller if you do".

If that were true, don't ever flush your toilet either because that would not only wear out the discharge impeller, but also the joker valve! Guess what: They all* DO wear out...as does everything else on a boat!* Replacing 'em on a schedule is called "PREVENTIVE maintenance" because it prevents a lot of the head aches caused by waiting till they fail.

*

 

[RT Firefly]

Hiya,
** Headmistress, ever heard of or used this stuff or any comment?

http://www.swishusa.com/product.htm?Product=8935-1&Source=Search

Thanks

 

[HeadMistress]

Never heard of that one.* My own company introduced the first bio-active (live bacteria) marine products in the late '80s...since then, there have a been a zillion "me too" clones...some of which are better than others because the bacteria colonies per volume vary greatly...the more bacteria colonies per volume, the better, but that also means the best ones cost more.* I checked out the literature and MDSS for it, couldn't find anything negative, and I'm a fan of non-chemical bio-active products, so give it a try* and let us know how well it works.

 

[Peter B]

Peggy, like Koliver says, my TMC macerator pump also never self-primed even from new, and sadly we don't get to spend nearly as much time out on the pick as I'd like, so it has not had that much use, so I doubt it's wear in this case, just not a great pump. The diaphragm pumps you mentioned would be better, but that's the curse of having to do things on a budget sometimes. I have the workaround, it's just a bit annoying to have to do it, that's all. When I replace it though...........you guessed it....

 

[HeadMistress]

Have either of you ever considered trying another brand of macerator? Owners of* Jabsco and Johnson Pump macerator pumps don't have any problem with 'em priming. Because Jabsco is the most common, I just assumed that's what you have.* I've never heard much to recommend any TMC equipment except low price.* From time to time there are attempts to create a market for it here, but none ever succeed

-- Edited by HeadMistress on Tuesday 7th of December 2010 05:19:00 PM

 

[sunchaser]

Peggy is spot on - buy a*well regarded*macerator pump and priming issues will be few.

 

[RT Firefly]

Hiya,
** Ms. Peggy.* I have been using the product for a number of years now and since you can not find fault with it I will continue to do so.* I have no idea as to it's effacity regarding bio-action but have noticed no odors.* I usually dilute it 20% to 50% and keep it in a spray bottle beside the throne.* Usually a few spritz's after use and flush keeps things fresh smelling.* A particularily*divine bovine*contribution (as in: Holy Cow! that's bad) neccesitates a few extra squirts and all is well.* I was just looking for feedback.* Thanks

-- Edited by RT Firefly on Wednesday 8th of December 2010 05:45:05 PM

 

[Roostor]

RT Firefly wrote:

* I have no idea as to it's effacity regarding bio-action but have noticed no odors.* I usually dilute it 20% to 50% and keep it in a spray bottle beside the throne.* -- Edited by RT Firefly on Wednesday 8th of December 2010 05:45:05 PM

So do you use it in your holding tank as well or just as a "cover up" for immediate odors? Sounds like it might be better than the "chemical solution" the marine store has if it works in the tank.

*

 

[RT Firefly]

Hiya,
** Mr.Rooster.* Yes, basically a "cover up" on a daily basis but a "neat" charge of about 1 cup after a pump-out and 1/2 cup (neat) or so every*4 or*5 days of heavy usage*.* Initially, many*flushes ago I used some blue stuff (can't remember the name possibly "Liquid Gold") which is formaldahyde based.***
** I'm not familiar with the "chemical solution" of which you speak BUT as Ms. Peggy has mentioned many times, and correctly so, a LIVE holding tank is a happy holding tank and the blue stuff I used to use was definatly a killer to the friendly digestive bugs that you WANT to have in your tank.
** Now the Aromx is NOT a sewage*treatment system whereby you can legaly discharge over the side.* You*must STILL get pumped out.
** May all your flushes be royal.
**

 

[Phil Fill]

I have been reading this discussion with some interest since I have been getting up at 3 in the morning to go to the bath room.* I understand its common amount older people.**NOT that I am say I am old. Just something I heard.* (-;

After 13 years of being a live aboard I do things a little different, which should not surprise most of you.* I kill the stuff, bugs/allege/what ever, dead.* We use Clorox, Clorox spray and CSR to clean out the toilet, hoses and tank, and once a week we have all the stuff pumped/sucked out.**13 years ago I installed Jabsco electric toilets with a macerator, new hoses and a bigger holding tank.* We*had no major plugs, several minor which were in the toilet, little build up in hoses, and no yuck smell form the toilet, hoses or tank.*

When we leave the dock or if anchor, I flush the system and switch to the Microphor sanitation system, which is sort of a small septic tank that used the bodies natural bacteria, but the stuff goes through a chlorine chamber so they end up*dead,*either way.* *






-- Edited by Phil Fill on Friday 10th of December 2010 12:45:45 PM

-- Edited by Phil Fill on Friday 10th of December 2010 12:46:41 PM

 

[Pineapple Girl]

Phil Fill wrote:

*
13 years ago I installed Jabsco electric toilets*


*

raw water or fresh?

*

 

[Phil Fill]

Fresh!

 

[Pineapple Girl]

Phil Fill wrote:

Fresh!

OH!* I am jealous.* Once I get new canvas my next boat bucks are earmarked for freshwater heads!!!

*

 

[Keith]

Pege, I need to replace a cleanout port on my holding tank. What caulk would*be best*between the Ronco PE tank and the PVC port fixture?

 

[HeadMistress]

Keith wrote:

Peg, I need to replace a cleanout port on my holding tank. What caulk would*be best*between the Ronco PE tank and the PVC port fixture?

Don't use any caulk or sealant...instead, use self-tapping screws to secure the flange to the tank and make a rubber gasket to create the seal between 'em.** You can find rubber gasket material itn a variety of thicknesses at any decent hardware store.

*


-- Edited by HeadMistress on Thursday 16th of December 2010 11:28:49 PM

-- Edited by HeadMistress on Thursday 16th of December 2010 11:30:00 PM

 

[Phil Fill]

If you have electric heads you can convert them to the fresh water by adding a pump to the electric button, so when the button is push it also starts the*pump.* We adjust the flow with a ball valve beside the toilet.*They also make kits which is basically a* pump.**

*

-- Edited by Phil Fill on Friday 17th of December 2010 08:06:46 AM
I read that bacteria could back flow through the fresh water so I installed an inline chlorine holder, and we started using Clorox spray.* 13+ years and no problems but we do use a lot of Clorox spray.*


-- Edited by Phil Fill on Friday 17th of December 2010 08:26:34 AM

 

[jleonard]

"I read that bacteria could back flow through the fresh water so I installed an inline chlorine holder"

You need a "backflow preventer". That is what comes as part of the installation kit for a fresh water flushing head.
I converted both my heads (toilets) to fresh water. One by buying a new Raaritan Sea Era unit (that came with the backflow preventer) , and the other by converting the Jabsco. I bought a backflow preventer for that change).
Both units use a solenoid to send the flush water to the head. On the Jabsco I removed the impeller from the macerator pump and now it is quiet.

 

[HeadMistress]

You need more than just a "backflow preventer" (one-way valve)...you also need a siphon breaker that's designed for use with pressurized water.

It's also important to understand that toilets that use sea water are designed to PULL water through the pump...whereas toilets designed to use onboard fresh water don't have an intake pump. A solenoid valve opens and closes to allow water under pressure to be PUSHED through the pump. Pushing water through a pump that's designed to pull it through can mess up the alignment, seating etc of valves, o-rings etc in it.

 

[Pineapple Girl]

I think my current electric heads are old enough that I will not feel quilty ripping them out and putting in new fresh water ones.* I may switch just*the aft one "for now" (whenever now*comes around)*as we so rarely use the forward one.*

 

[jleonard]

"You need more than just a "backflow preventer" (one-way valve)...you also need a siphon breaker that's designed for use with pressurized water"

I could not think of the word siphon breaker. I know them as one in the same because my plumber friend uses the terms synonomously. (but perhaps they are not the same). Regardelss it's the piece that came with the Raritan head for fresh water.

I have solenoids on both heads. To convert the Jabsco I feed from the solenoid into the toilet. I removed the impeller from the pump housing and sealed the in/outlets with pipe plugs (after 1/8 npt tapping them) in case the macerating chamber seal leaks. It has worked flawlessly for 4 seasons now.

On a side note expect sticker shock when you shop for a 12v water solenoid valve . The best I found was close to $100. (Funny, I now work for a company that makes solenoid valves. I could have*had one au gratis. LOL)

 

[JMYSS]

We just removed the entire 3 head Galleymaid (sea water)head system from a 1989 72' Hatteras and replaced all the lines and new system with HeadHunter fresh water pressurized system with great results. No stinky sea water, and puts less water in the holding tank then the old Galleymaid system. If you look on www.headhunter.com* we have been pleased with the equpment. Requires a pretty big pressure pump but it can double as your freshwater pump for the rest of the boat as well.......

 

[FF]

List the Galley Maid , some folks prefer them for their longevity.

 

[Phil Fill]

If you have a long up and down run be sure to ask about the head pushing power.* Our front head is 40 ft from the tank and up and down.* Not many toilets have the power to push the stuff that far.* Also the cutting power so when a dirt person puts something down the toilet there is a good change it will not clog the toilet.* Some toilets require a gravity feed like dirt homes and RV.* If you maintain the toilet even the cheap ones will last as long as the expensive ones.*

-- Edited by Phil Fill on Sunday 19th of December 2010 09:38:26 AM