Krogen 42 hull construction

[seattleboatguy]

I came across the quote below on the internet, and wondered how the 1970s vintage 42s were doing as far as delamination in the sandwich hull construction, and the "deflections" mentioned in the quote.

"Until the mid-1980s, Krogen 42 hulls were fully cored with closed-cell PVC foam. After several boats built in the late 1970s and early ‘80s developed hull bottom deflections, the company switched to solid hand-laid fiberglass below the waterline."

 

[Larry M]

The change wasn't until ~1992 I believe. Up to that point all K42's had cored hulls below the waterline. In the early, 80's Krogen paid to have some hulls repaired. Their construction techniques improved and the deflection or delamination became pretty much a thing of the past. The issue that some of the KK42s had/have is moisture getting into the core because of hull penetrations. This is an issue with all cored hulls. The pvc that KK used doesn't rot. If you're considering one, get a good surveyor. I wouldn't walk a way form a boat because it had coring or some moisture in the core though.

 

[seattleboatguy]

I wouldn't walk a way form a boat because it had coring or some moisture in the core though.

Hi Larry. Thanks for the feedback. There is a 1977 Krogen in Annapolis that I was interested in, but when I heard about the potential hull issues, I got scared. I emailed the broker about the hull, and the broker replied "Moisture readings are high". I am curious why you would not walk away from a boat like this. I know little about sandwich construction hulls, but I would think high moisture readings on a composite construction hull would be a show stopper. So far, I have only seen the pictures on yachtworld. I love everything about the boat except for the potential high cost hull repairs. How would you recommend I proceed from here?

1977 Krogen Pilothouse Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

 

[Donsan]

You found yourself a RARE KK 42 with twins.

 

[seattleboatguy]

You found yourself a RARE KK 42 with twins.

Is it only the really old 42s that have twins?

 

[Larry M]

...I emailed the broker about the hull, and the broker replied "Moisture readings are high". I am curious why you would not walk away from a boat like this. I know little about sandwich construction hulls, but I would think high moisture readings on a composite construction hull would be a show stopper...

Unless the hull has delamination issues in the core between the 2 skins. It is repairable. Not cheap but not a structural issue IMHO. PVC does not rot like balsa core. There are probably more issues with this boat than the moist core or it wouldn't be listed for $89K. The brokers listing says 2 Al water tanks 50 gallons. When the boat was built, she was suppose to have 300 plus gallon fresh water capacity in 2 integral fiberglass tanks according a 1976 copy of the construction drawings. What happened to those two tanks? Also look at the wiring in the engine room? The boat deck has been replaced. How was it done? I'm not saying the boat isn't worth $89K to someone but if you're looking for a drive a way boat I'm not sure this is it.

The boat looks like it's MD and your in VA, why not go take a look. It could be a diamond in the rough.

I do like the brokers statement about the twin engines though, "Spares are good when cruising why not a spare motor!"

 

[Larry M]

Is it only the really old 42s that have twins?

The brokers listing says it is 1 of 5 built with twins.

 

[seattleboatguy]

What happened to those two tanks? Also look at the wiring in the engine room? The boat deck has been replaced. How was it done?

Good information. I will take your questions along with me to Annapolis in a few weeks. Thank you for the feedback.

 

[Sealife]

PM me, I just finished a 2 year complete refit of a 1984 KK42, more than 6 figures $$. I am also an ABYC Certified Master Technician and an AMS with SAMS, so have a unique perspective.
Larry M has seen some pics.


Scott

 

[BlueSky]

PM me, I just finished a 2 year complete refit of a 1984 KK42, more than 6 figures $$. I am also an ABYC Certified Master Technician and an AMS with SAMS, so have a unique perspective.
Larry M has seen some pics.


Scott - I'm curious what all you did on the refit, would you mind sharing some information? Mine is a 1985 that's in pretty good shape for a 30 year old boat, but they all have issues.

We'll be pulled out next month to have the teak side decks replaced with fiberglass, service the stabilizers and inspect / clean the fuel tanks. I'm trying to decide what else I want to do while it's out.

Richard

 

[PointsNorth]

Ours is Hull #106 and went in knowing about the moisture in the core problem. She came out solid and no problem. You wont have this problem to look for, but here is the but the stock fuel tanks. The previous owner knew there was a fuel leak in the port tank. Both the surveyor and I missed it. With much fretting and a white oil absorbent pad rolled up and placed under the inspection plat there it was. We have new gaskets to make when I get home. Can't say enough good for the boat best one I've ever owned. Good luck on your search its worth the time. Just make sure she is the one, boats are boats and they all have problems. The time for the trip is worth it.

 

[seattleboatguy]

Ours is Hull #106 and went in knowing about the moisture in the core problem. She came out solid and no problem.

I appreciate the insights, and I would like to bug you for more of the gory details. These are some of the questions that are floating around in my head:

1. From my brief email exchange with the broker, it is apparently no secret that the hull has more moisture than "normal" (whatever "normal" is). Will it be obvious to a surveyor on a out-of-the-water survey if there is delamination in places?
2. If the surveyor is able to find delamination, how much is too much?
3. If the hull has high moisture readings, but no delamination, could I have major delamination issues 10 years from now from the moisture?
4. In my initial post, I quoted an article that said some of the 42s had "hull bottom deflections". Is this something that would be obvious when you are inside the engine room, or is this something you would not see until you hauled the boat?

I'm reasonably handy when it comes to the usual boat maintenance stuff, but I don't want to find myself with a hull that needs first aid. Hopefully, when I see the boat in a few weeks, I can get a few more insights into why a Krogen 42 has an asking price under $100k. In any event, I look forward to seeing the boat. They really look cool.

 

[JDCAVE]

Seattle boat guy: I wold suggest you bring someone along, who actually does the work. A good shipwright or person in the boat repair business will tell you more about the process than a marine surveyor will in my opinion. Clearly a surveyor is important but they can either overstate the problem in the first place or, miss issues.

A number of surveyors misuse moisture meters. These are ineffective when trying to determine moisture in the hull, or through FRP laminate. When we bought our KK42 I learned more from a trusted shipwright than I did from the surveyor I hired or the other surveyor's report on a failed purchase.

My shipwright determined a delamination issue with another KK42 that was on the market when we were shopping. This was revealed by a "wavy surface" on the pilothouse and saloon walls outside. My boat broker said it wasn't properly "long-boarded" when it was built (whatever-to-hell that is). My shipwright said it pointed to a bigger problem of delamination from water intrusion, probably from the top decks. I walked from that boat, prior to putting in an offer. I paid my shipwright to do these inspections with me, and he took that off the bill for later work which he did. In the end I felt that this was money well spent.


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

 

[seattleboatguy]

Seattle boat guy: I wold suggest you bring someone along, who actually does the work. A good shipwright or person in the boat repair business will tell you more about the process than a marine surveyor will in my opinion.

Hi Jim. You have an interesting idea that I had not considered. If I decide to go shipwright shopping, how do I find them, and once found, how do I select the best one for this purpose? I live 4 hours away from the Krogen, so everyone in that town will be a stranger to me.

 

[seattleboatguy]

The boat deck has been replaced. How was it done?"

Hey Larry, how do you know the boat deck has been replaced? I can't find any mention of it in the yachtworld ad.

 

[JDCAVE]

Hi Jim. You have an interesting idea that I had not considered. If I decide to go shipwright shopping, how do I find them, and once found, how do I select the best one for this purpose? I live 4 hours away from the Krogen, so everyone in that town will be a stranger to me.

I brought my guy with me. I've known him for almost 30 years. The boats were in the Anacortes area and we were 2 hours from them. I paid $350/trip. I was happy and he was okay with that. All informal. My suggestion is you ask around (this forum) for a reliable person in the area and see what he says. The problem with "hull" stuff is the boat needs to be hauled out. Decks, etc. are easier to deal with.


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

 

[Daveo]

JDCAVE, thanks for the advice, even though meant for seattleboatguy. I'm also looking for a kk42 and have been considering the one in Hyannis,ma I 1982 Kadey Krogen Pilothouse Trawler Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com. I would have to describe it as a "project" and I could use some help. Anybody out there have a recommendation for a competent and honest shipwright in the area? Or advice on finding same?
Dave

 

[Larry M]

Hey Larry, how do you know the boat deck has been replaced? I can't find any mention of it in the yachtworld ad.

Don't expect the broker to know the history or construction details of all the boats he's selling. There's to much information and usually a cloudy history with multiple owners. Not his fault, it's just the way it is.

Early 42's (some) had teak boat decks. From looking at the pictures you can see that the rails around the hatch on the boat deck are raised up what looks like circular blocks. Also the spacing where the fly-bridge to the boat deck looks high.

If you're serious about proceeding with this KK42, I'd talk/hire Scott, Sealife. He redid his KK42 from the moist core all the way up plus he's an accredited marine surveyor. An keep in mind, If you've seen one Krogen, you've seen one Krogen. Good luck!

 

[hollywood8118]

So does anyone use a FLIR I.R. camera to look at the extent of water intrusion on the cored hulls?
I would think this would be a low cost, non invasive way to see where water is. I know it is a amazing technology and you can look through about anything.
Hollywood

 

[Larry M]

So does anyone use a FLIR I.R. camera to look at the extent of water intrusion on the cored hulls?
I would think this would be a low cost, non invasive way to see where water is. I know it is a amazing technology and you can look through about anything.
Hollywood

Sounds like a good idea. After owning two boats (Hobo and a 43' sailboat) for 18 years with cored hulls, I've never seen one used. I've watched surveyors, yard managers and so called experts use hammers and moisture meters but that's it. You'd be amazed (maybe not you) at the different interpretations of what the hammers and meters mean as to how the moisture has affected the core.

 

[Pack Mule]

Just curious here .How do most yards dry out a wet core ?

 

[refugio]

Just curious here .How do most yards dry out a wet core ?

Hoo boy. Google "peeling" a hull.

 

[Pack Mule]

Hoo boy. Google "peeling" a hull.

Oh man didn't know that's what had to be done .

 

[JDCAVE]

Hoo boy. Google "peeling" a hull.

I especially liked this one...

http://hea-www.cfa.harvard.edu/AstroStat/Stat310_fMMV/hsl_20060907.pdf


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

 

[Daveo]

That's it! To h**l with these old boats, I'm going back to flying. Dave

 

[Britannia]

Stillwater has a 27 year old cored hull. Sure hope I never have to peel it

I personally tapped the hull all over with a mallet. It rang like a bell everywhere except where there was glassing in around through hulls and the stabilizer fins. Sure hope I got that right...

Richard
Stillwater
KK54

 

[siestakey]

That's it! To h**l with these old boats, I'm going back to flying. Dave

My little plane is way cheaper then my boat

 

[Sealife]

I have received several request for details, pics, etc. My wife and I leave in 6 weeks for a multi year international cruise. So currently if it does not involve getting ready to leave, or funding the adventure, frankly I don't have the time. BUT, We will have a website documenting the cruise and I promise to put some boat details, pics, etc. in a side bar. It will probably take until January to do so, as still learning languages, desolving marine business, dealing with finances, legal crap, taxes, etc. to streamline life abroad.

Just wanted everyone to know.

Scott