Nordhaven loses its identity

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
See posts with no answers
E

eyschulman

Guru
Joined
Apr 1, 2014
Messages
1,288
Up until recently when the NH word was uttered one would instantly know you are talking blue water heavy FD boat. Now that NH has conceded that there are a large # of buyers who use their boats in ways that are not suited to the classic NH the company has released both Sport fishing planning hull and coastal cruising SD hull models. So I say for those few die hard classic FD NH fans even NH must now agree that the best boat is the one that comes closest to matching the use pattern of the owners and for many the heavy FD classic NH is not the best fit. Of course the larger market for SD and SF and the use of the established NH branding and the potential $ to be made must have also been in the mix.
 
I'm pretty sure the 75EYF is FD...
 
You do realize the N-35, the power boat Nordhavn started with, was a semi displacement boat? That makes the 59 Coastal Pilot more of a back to the future sorta boat and as Oliver pointed out the yacht fisher 75 is very much FD. Perhaps why only 3 where built, what fun is a fish killer without 20+ knot speed to go with it? Out of 500+ hulls these two models sound more like anomalies at this point than some sort of grand departure. Time and the market will ultimately tell.
 
I think you are talking about 3 different boats, each with it's own story. They are:

Toro 60
Lanzarote 22M
Coastal Pilot 59

The Toro and Lanzarote are listed on the Brokerage page under the category of "Non-Nordhavns". Both boats were independent projects taken on my South Coast which is one of the ship yards that builds Nordhavns. The Toro was done entirely by South with no involvement by PAE, and was targeted for the Asia market. It's being offered for sale here as well as a non-Nordhavn boat. The same is true for the Lanzarote, but I believe Jeff Leishman helped with the design in some ways. I don't think you will see either boat become Nordhavn branded, but you never know.

The Coastal Pilot 59 is definitely a Nordhavn, designed by PAE, and being built by Ta Shing which is the other ship yard that builds Nordhavns. PAE have floated a number of trial-ballon designs over the year, but they feel the 59 is "the one" and have been building the tooling. I think they normally don't build the first of a new model until they have an order, but in this case they have moved forward with tooling. I don't know if they have any orders at this point.

So I think your comment about PAE expanding beyond just the FD market is certainly correct, but it's really just one boat at the moment. I wouldn't count the Toro and Lanzarote.
 
CPseudonym said:
You do realize the N-35, the power boat Nordhavn started with, was a semi displacement boat? That makes the 59 Coastal Pilot more of a back to the future sorta boat and as Oliver pointed out the yacht fisher 75 is very much FD. Perhaps why only 3 where built, what fun is a fish killer without 20+ knot speed to go with it? Out of 500+ hulls these two models sound more like anomalies at this point than some sort of grand departure. Time and the market will ultimately tell.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure when the N-35 started and ended, but it's not the boat they started with. The N-46 was first, followed by the N-62.

But you are correct that the N-35 is SD.

I definitely would characterize the CP-59 as an expansion, not a departure. The FD boat's aren't going away or being de-emphasized.

I just too a look and the N-35 came out in 2001 and ran for 5 years with 24 built.
 
twistedtree said:
I'm not sure when the N-35 started and ended, but it's not the boat they started with. The N-46 was first, followed by the N-62.

But you are correct that the N-35 is SD.

I definitely would characterize the CP-59 as an expansion, not a departure. The FD boat's aren't going away or being de-emphasized.

I just too a look and the N-35 came out in 2001 and ran for 5 years with 24 built.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected , thank you for that. Didn't realize the 46 and 62 had been around longer than the 35. They are all really different style wise.
 
I think the Toro 60 a full out planning SF will for the time being not be branded NH but I believe NH is deeply involved a little like TP when it built multiple brand names or GB with Eastbays . Its still the movers and shakers behind NH who are instigating this expansion. No I did not realize the little NH was SD learn something every day.
 
eyschulman said:
I think the Toro 60 a full out planning SF will for the time being not be branded NH but I believe NH is deeply involved a little like TP when it built multiple brand names or GB with Eastbays . Its still the movers and shakers behind NH who are instigating this expansion. No I did not realize the little NH was SD learn something every day.
Click to expand...

Yes, the Toro is a full planing hull. The movers and shakers, i.e. Dan Streech, Jim Leishman, and Jeff Leishman are definitely behind the CP59. But the Toro and Lanzarote came about as I described, not driven by PAE. Dan told me the whole story behind them. Both boats were in the yard in Xiaman while mine was being built, and the Toro came over with mine on the same ship. After being unloaded, the Toro made the trip from San Diego to Dana Point WAY faster than my boat. Now if the Toro takes off in sales I'm sure PAE won't ignore that, but in the mean time it's a non-Nordhavn brand.
 
CPseudonym said:
...what fun is a fish killer without 20+ knot speed to go with it?
Click to expand...

Hey, I resemble that remark!!

To answer your question, lots of friggin' fun...especially if you're retired!!

img_312236_0_e885a1757ccb003a9b661326e275e77a.jpg
 
Actually, PAE's first boats, from their beginning in 1978, were sailboats designed by Al Mason, the Mason 43 being the first. They did not build the 46, their first power boat until 1988 after the sailboat market tanked.
 
Fast or slow the damn fish see me coming...
 
With out the ocean scantlings requirement , perhaps the price can go down by 2/3?
 
THD said:
Actually, PAE's first boats, from their beginning in 1978, were sailboats designed by Al Mason, the Mason 43 being the first. They did not build the 46, their first power boat until 1988 after the sailboat market tanked.
Click to expand...

That's correct. I should have said the 46 was the first boat designed by PAE. Jeff Leishman in particular. That's a Mason going down the streets of NYC at the end of Romancing the Stone. Beautiful boats, in my opinion.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2465.jpg
    IMG_2465.jpg
    132.5 KB · Views: 116
FF said:
With out the ocean scantlings requirement , perhaps the price can go down by 2/3?
Click to expand...


Given quality and hardware will remain the same as all other Nordhavn's, probably not.
 
This probe of NH into the SD market may not go anywhere there is a lot of competition out there and I don't think too many classic NH owners are going to trade up to a NH SD not enough to make a difference. It will probably take a few years for the dust to settle.
 
eyschulman said:
This probe of NH into the SD market may not go anywhere there is a lot of competition out there and I don't think too many classic NH owners are going to trade up to a NH SD not enough to make a difference. It will probably take a few years for the dust to settle.
Click to expand...
I don't think NH expects their present clientele to move to these SD hulls. They would probably be looking for new clients that are not candidates for for FD hulls, but want quality construction and aftermarket support. Whether they can compete with the current offerings and make it pay is another story.
 
Time will tell of course, but I see success. CE A rated SD sixty footers with a pedigree are few. The Fleming 58 is one that comes to mind. Working with PAE on a new build is a pleasant experience as best I know, a rare builder in this regard. Warranty and commissioning are near the best in the industry.
 
Expanding into other market niches doesn't equal losing your identity. It's about business expansion. If FD nordie sales were tanking, I would agree. This is about growing their business and nothing wrong with that. There may be some NH purists who disagree with the strategy, but they don't own the business.


Kevin
Portland, OR
 
I wonder if the market had changed so much since Kadey Krogen tried this 15? Years ago.

They probably think they can do it better.
 
Wxx3 said:
I wonder if the market had changed so much since Kadey Krogen tried this 15? Years ago.

They probably think they can do it better.
Click to expand...

Richard,

Which models represented KK's attempts 15 or so years ago?

Richard
 
The designs were sold off when Kurt Krogen retired. Still an ongoing business with different ownership. Nice boats but different market.


Kevin
Portland, OR
 
Britannia said:
Got it! I couldn't find anything on the KK website. I remember seeing these on yacht world when I was searching. Are they not considered a successful line of boats?
Click to expand...


No idea, perhaps KK had one previously that I'm unaware of. At least one member here owns I believe a 54' or 58' version of a Krogen Express in the PNW and seems pretty happy with his choice.
 
I like the NH 59 CP. Nice looking boat and I hope it will have the same quality as other NHs......
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

T
GB 36 propane locker update advice
Replies
22
Views
895
TrawlerDavid
T
H
Our Journey - new build hull #1 of KK 60’
Replies
6
Views
1K
BandB
BandB
M
Heavy Weather - GB42
2 3
Replies
80
Views
7K
crowleykirk
C
Roger Long
Rolling, rolling.
Replies
12
Views
2K
Kit_L
Kit_L
portager
Dinghy Search for A Trailerable Trawler
Replies
6
Views
679
Jeff F
Jeff F

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom