Balmar MC-614 Regulator Settings

[ReedStr]

I though I would start a thread on how to set up Balmar MC-614 regulators. I've searched around and can find very little about it. To kick this off, here's how I set mine up:

I target the Charge Acceptance Rate with the Fba and FFL settings rather than time spent charging with the Blc and Alc settings because the Balmar Regulators always run through their bulk and absorption timers at least once and I don't want to over charge when I pull away from the dock with full batteries. If I set Alc to 4 hours then I will get 4 hours of absorption charging even when my battery banks are full. I know this is true. I checked with Balmar. So I leave Blc and Alc at their default settings of 3 (18 minutes).

I set Fba to 40% because in my system 40% field yields a switch to absorption at about 80 amps which given my battery bank size and my hotel load of 25 amps the 55 amp cutoff means the batteries are charged in bulk mode to about 90%.

I set FFL to 20% because that yields a switch to float at about 40 amps which with a 25 amp hotel load gets my 630 ah lifeline agm batteries pretty fully charged but still leaves me 15 amps of room to not over charge the batteries. The general idea is that I want to err on setting the FFL a little high and not fully charging the batteries since setting the FFL too low would cause the regulators to never switch to float.

I also derate the alternators to B2 although I have a alternator temp monitor so this should not be necessary.

One thing I noticed about the Balmar Regulators is that while they do a continuous Bulk charge they do a "bouncing" absorption charge. That is when they go into absorption charging they charge at the absorption voltage for a while and then fall down to float before reaching the FFL of 20%. Then they absorption charge some more and fall to float again. Eventually, when they reach 20% field while in absorption charge mode they fall into float mode and stay there. Consequently I target 90% charged in bulk mode since the "bouncing" in absorption reduces the rate of charge.

Thoughts? Different ways I should be setting up the MC-614? Am I wrong to target CAR and not time? Is there some way to set them up to achieve a really full charge but not over charge them when pulling away from the dock with already full batteries?

 

[FlyWright]

Great thread topic, ReedStr...and very timely. I recently installed a 120A Balmar 621 Alternator and MC-614 regulator on my stbd engine to charge my 660AH flooded wet cell house bank. I think a key difference here is your AGM bank has a much higher acceptance rate than a FWC bank.

I've played a bit with my settings, primarily bumping up the bulk voltage (bv) and absorption voltage (Av) to 14.7/14.5% (from 14.6/14.4%), and the minimum bulk and absorption times (b1c and A1c) to 4 hrs, IIRC. I typically run 3 hrs or less so I thought it would help to keep the bulk charge going with this setting. I adjusted both FbA (Field Threshold-Bulk to Absorption) and FFL (Field Threshold-Float to Absorption) to 50% as a starting point, not knowing for sure what its effect would be.

I didn't realize that the minimum time limits on bv and Av were going to automatically apply even if the battery is full leaving the dock. I made these adjustments last time I was out while we were on the hook for an extended period. When relocating under these settings, I observed the voltage staying up there near 14.5V, but as the battery charged, the battery acceptance rate decreased and the current flow into the battery dropped significantly. On flooded deep cycles, I don't mind seeing a few hours of high voltage (14.4-14.8V) to shake loose some of the sulfur. The key for me is to keep the batteries well serviced with distilled water.

Since it's so new to me, I have never seen my Balmar in operation at these settings when leaving the dock with a full house bank. I'll watch it closely, but I might need to go back and reset those b1c and A1c times.

b1, b2, etc is the Belt Manager setting for derating the alternator. I have a 1/2 inch belt and thought I'd need to derate for that, but so far, I have not seen much more than 90A into my bank and have seen no issues with excessive belt noise or dust. I think the slow ramp up of load is helpful, also. I realize that the alternator is putting out more than 90A to meet the house loads also, but so far, no problem, so I have not derated. I carry spare belts and may have a change of heart if I see belt wear/failure. My ER cameras allow me to keep a close eye on the belts.

I have the battery bank temp sensor connected, but did not purchase the alternator sensor. I kind of doubt it would be needed, but should probably add it just in case. It sure wouldn't be expensive or difficult to add.

One nice feature of my 621 alternator is that although it is MC-614 capable, it also has its own internal regulator that can be utilized if the 614 fails. It basically reverts to a dumb regulator without a float function with the flip of a switch. I plan to connect a switch for this purpose soon.

I posted this link on the "Alternator Check" thread, but I think it bears repeating here. This is a great discussion of battery charging and charge supply behavior, be it smart alternator, dumb alternator or smart shore charger. It's a long post with many pearls of wisdom scattered throughout. This video is included in the link above, but gives a good visual demonstration of the basic concepts.

 

[ReedStr]

well, thanks for that link. He's right of course especially for sailors with flooded lead acid. But I'm in that high CAR AGM crowd with high output alternators where he recommends external regulation and I didn't see in the thread where Maine Sail discusses how to set up external regulation. In another thread I saw him recommend setting up Balmars to timed charging like a typical marine charger (and like you did) but there was no discussion why he recommended that versus targeting a CAR like I outlined above.
If I were a sailor, i.e. only running the motor a little bit each day, or a live a aboard cruiser so I rarely left the dock fully charged but needed to do a full charge while under way then I would do a timed charge rather than targeting CAR since I'd want to fully charge whenever I could. The longer the better. I would keep Fba, FFL, and BLC as I described above and set Alc to 60 to try to get the 6 hours in absorption my batteries need to fully charge. Leaving FFL as I described above would prevent a second 6 hour absorption cycle if I had a really long day.

 

[Spirare]

Hi ReedStr,

I find the the description of FFL in the Balmar manual confusing. I am wondering if FFL refer to how much field % is required for the regulator to revert back to absorption from float? It may explain your observations ("bouncing" absorption charge) if FFL is set low and ALC short.

If this is the case, then the absorption would only have a time rule to switch to float for the lack of a parameter to set... again I find this very confusing as the manual seems to indicate otherwise.

I wonder too how to set FBA and FFL for not overcharging the battery leaving the dock with a full charge ?

 

[ReedStr]

it certainly is confusing. yes, ffl is the amount of field necessary to stay in absorbtion. since field percentage is roughly the same as alternator amp output percentage you can set ffl based in your hotel load and your battery acceptance rate at close to fully charged. set it high enough and you'll not overcharge as you pull away from the dock as long as you keep the timers low because it will first charge for bulk time, 3 minutes by default then check FBA which will be too low so it will drop through to the absorbtion voltage for however long you set absorbtion, 3 minutes by default, and then check ffl which will be too low because your batteries are charged so it will drop through to float. make sense?
ok, it's confusing i know.

 

[twistedtree]

This is great stuff. I have quite frankly ignored my Balmars so far, and this is good motivation to dig into them.

 

[cardude01]

If one's battery bank is weak and won't hold a charge very well, will that affect the Balmar regulator operation?

Reason I ask is because I was seeing low voltages of about 13v coming out of the regulator while underway, and at the end of 8-10 hours of running the batteries were all but depleted.

I always started out with a full charge after being plugged into shore power all night with the battery charger running. . Just wondering if weak batteries could somehow trick the regulator into a float charge scenario somehow?

 

[Codger2]

This is great stuff. I have quite frankly ignored my Balmars so far, and this is good motivation to dig into them.

You are quite right! Balmar's Smart Gauge & Smart Regulator will give you more info than you can imagine if you just read the manual. (And it's "easy reading!")

 

[cafesport]

If one's battery bank is weak and won't hold a charge very well, will that affect the Balmar regulator?

Cardude,This is from the manual on page 7. It describes the charging logic of the smart regulator. Depending on what you have for batteries you can program it to do whatever the manufacturer recommends. There are 8 standard battery type presets you can start with and modify as you see fit. If your batteries can take current they'll get it , otherwise they receive the preset voltage charges.

Regulator Operation
The MC-624 regulator’s microprocessor controlled charging system uses a sophisticated, multi-stage profile to deliver
maximum charging output, while protecting the batteries from overcharging damage. When the regulator is first turned on,
the processor performs a quick one-second self diagnostic assessment. Following that diagnostic, the MC-624 initiates a
charge program as follows:
1. Start Delay - Factory set at one second. Can be user-adjusted to a maximum of 999 seconds in the regulator’s advanced
programming mode. See Advanced Programming section for adjustment instructions.
2. Soft Ramp - Gently increases voltage to bulk preset levels based on battery program selected.
3. Bulk Charge - The most aggressive of the charging stages. Voltage is held at a pre-set level, specified by battery
program selected, for a set time period. Factory-set bulk time is 18 minutes. Adjustable in 6-minute increments.
4. Calculated Bulk Charge - Holds voltage at bulk level for six minutes, then calculates battery condition by comparing
existing voltage, time at voltage, and field percentage to target values. If values are met, the regulator advances to
the next stage. If values are not met, the regulator continues to bulk charge and compares real-time to target values.
This will re-occur until all values are met.
5. Ramps down to Absorption voltage.
6. Absorption Charge - Regulator continues to control the alternator’s output voltage for an additional 18 minutes at
approximately 2/10’s of a volt below bulk charging voltage. Adjustable in 6-minute increments.
7. Calculated Absorption Charge - Holds voltage at absorption level for six minutes, then calculates battery condition
bycomparing existing voltage, time at voltage, and field percentage to target values. If values are met, the regulator
advances to the next stage. If values are not met, the regulator extends the absorption charge and compares realtime
to target values. This will re-occur until all values are met.
8. Ramp down to Float.
9. Float Charge - Regulator continues to control the alternator’s output voltage for an additional 18 minutes, typically
at a volt less than bulk voltage (based on battery program presets). After that initial fixed time period, the regulator
can respond to increased charging demand by cycling to absorption voltage. After 12 hours of continuous operation,
the regulator will automatically revert to absorption voltage through calculated absorption and back to float charging
stage.




Via iPhone.

 

[Don New Zealand]

Great topic

Gidday Folks

I too have been involved with a couple of these regulators and I didn't have that locked in feeling that I had it set up right.

1x 2 crew off shore trawler 200 a/hr house and 200 a/hr start 24v
1x 80t thrust 360 degree thrust tug 2x 500a/hr house 24v 2 x alternators dedicated house.
1x OTT house bus / mobile entertainment unit 1000 a/hr house
24v dedicated engine driven alternator.
140 amp charge via victron energy inverter chargers powered from either shore power or
2 x 3kw honda petrol powered inverter gensets.


It's been a couple of years since my last one

I like the feeling of alternator long life that temp sense a lot, I set all mine up by temperature max 90 degrees of the alternator after half an hour at full noise against full load worst scenario on hot summers day summer, then back 5%
if alt went over 10 degrees then back another 20%

It was excellent to see the immediate temperature drop.

The second best thing is the battery temperature sensing

This meant in my applications I could charge as hard out as the alternator would go so on a cold day one of the applications had 140 amp of charge from two

Slow belt and alternator warm up is nice too , gotta be good for the brushes stator and rectifier in the alternator,

I'll be back later

and what if one battery bank is no good, depends
gotta ask yourself ' how will the regulator know ? '

if one or more cell/s is shorted it is highly un likely the regulator will know unless you have battery temperature sensing and the temperature sense is on a cell that is getting hot

all the the other cells in that bank will get over charged =
high electrolyte consumption
higher gassing
higher explosion risk
higher emistivtty = higher acid spew n spit
higher corrosive effect of battery room

if one cell is open circuit

regulator is highly unlikely to know

wont accept charge
wont do anything
wont supply power when needed
both are poorest performance in an emergency situation


I'll come back later once I've thought about this a little more

Kind regards All and thanks for the opportunity

Donald

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Welcome aboard.

 

[jleonard]

I am on my 3rd season using a 80 amp Balmar alternator and one of these regulators.
I have flooded batteries and left all the factory settings as is except for reducing belt load by 20%. No battery temp monitor but I have the alt temp monitor.
The first season I cruised all season and everything worked fine, batteries stayed charged as expected.
Last season and this season I am staying at a marina and weekend cruising and I experienced a slight problem.
It is very repeatable...after leaving the dock with batteries fully charged (charger on all week) ...after approximately 1 hour running 1650 rpm my tach needle flutters for several seconds then I get zero rpm.
The needle stays at zero for maybe 2 or 3 minutes, then flutters slowly back up to 1650 and stays there.
This happens only when I leave the dock with fully charged batteries.

I called Balmar and wasn't really thrilled with their response which was basically play with the voltage settings until this no longer happens. I'm not smart enough to do that and know what I'm doing.
Thoughts?

 

[SCOTTEDAVIS]

Good read on External VR

Musings Regarding External Regulation - SailboatOwners.com

 

[Codger2]

Last season and this season I am staying at a marina and weekend cruising and I experienced a slight problem.
It is very repeatable...after leaving the dock with batteries fully charged (charger on all week) ...after approximately 1 hour running 1650 rpm my tach needle flutters for several seconds then I get zero rpm.

I had almost exactly the same problem with my single diesel on a previous boat. (Cummins 330 B) We tried various settings with the Balmar regulator, but as it turned out it wasn't the regulator's fault! The tachometer sender had quite a lot of "electrically generated" dust on its magnetic pick up. By removing the sender, wiping it clean and reinstalling it within 1/8th inch of the fly wheel (better sensing) the problem was gone!

Hope this helps.

 

[jleonard]

I had almost exactly the same problem with my single diesel on a previous boat. (Cummins 330 B) We tried various settings with the Balmar regulator, but as it turned out it wasn't the regulator's fault! The tachometer sender had quite a lot of "electrically generated" dust on its magnetic pick up. By removing the sender, wiping it clean and reinstalling it within 1/8th inch of the fly wheel (better sensing) the problem was gone!
Hope this helps.

Thanks Walt, but my Lehman is strictly alternator/regulator controlled. Something is telling the system to stop the output.

 

[SCOTTEDAVIS]

Thanks Walt, but my Lehman is strictly alternator/regulator controlled. Something is telling the system to stop the output.

If I understand the way the Belmar VR's work after a predetermined time they stop charging to read the bank voltage and then resume bulk charging or switch to absorption (or float) for another predetermined period.

Perhaps it is when I shuts down to check that is also shutting down the tack output.

The fact that it is so repeatable and consistent tells me it may be working as intended as a VR and not trying to be a tach. drive.

 

[Heron]

Good read on External VR

Musings Regarding External Regulation - SailboatOwners.com

A VERY good read..

 

[BobH]

If the batteries are fully charged and there is little DC load the alternator output is cut way back and there is not enough signal for the tach. I just installed a Balmar external regulator, not sure about the model, but it has a separate output for driving a tach that is supposed to eliminate that problem. I haven't had this problem on the current boat so at this point I haven't hooked that up. On our last boat, sail, the tach would occasionally stop reading but turning on some DC load would bring it back.


Bob

 

[FlyWright]

I'm going to have to take a much closer look at my Balmar MC-614 external regulator settings to make sure it's optimized for my 660AH lead-acid golf cart house bank. I thought I had it set right, but the more I read, the less I'm sure.

I have the battery temp sensor installed, but not the alternator temp sensor. Just ordered that for under $40. It'll be a simple add-on and setup.

I almost always leave the slip with full start and house batts from the shore charger. I frequently spend a week or two on the boat with limited shore power, so I count on my mains while enroute and my generator-powered shore charger while on the hook. While enroute, my Balmar (stbd) is dedicated to my house bank and the OEM port alternator is assigned start battery charging duty.

Has anyone with a similarly sized house bank already done the mental gymnastics required to achieve the perfect settings for the Balmar Max Charge VRs? Care to share your findings with us?

 

[SCOTTEDAVIS]

I'm going to have to take a much closer look at my Balmar MC-614 external regulator settings to make sure it's optimized for my 660AH lead-acid golf cart house bank. I thought I had it set right, but the more I read, the less I'm sure.

I have the battery temp sensor installed, but not the alternator temp sensor. Just ordered that for under $40. It'll be a simple add-on and setup.

I almost always leave the slip with full start and house batts from the shore charger. I frequently spend a week or two on the boat with limited shore power, so I count on my mains while enroute and my generator-powered shore charger while on the hook. While enroute, my Balmar (stbd) is dedicated to my house bank and the OEM port alternator is assigned start battery charging duty.

Has anyone with a similarly sized house bank already done the mental gymnastics required to achieve the perfect settings for the Balmar Max Charge VRs? Care to share your findings with us?

Read the link I posted, Mainsail has it to a shiny nut. That's what I did and it's spot on.

 

[FlyWright]

Read the link I posted, Mainsail has it to a shiny nut. That's what I did and it's spot on.

I agree, Scott. I have read that article before and found it greatly helpful. It's a great explanation...but there are MANY other adjustable settings that need to be considered. I'm away from the manual now, but can post some examples later.

 

[Don New Zealand]

I read some of the article and agree with what was written.

My first consideration is what are the battery makers charge specifications ?
included in this spec is the temperature / charge voltage graph, I haven't seen this talked about.

So where I live last night it was minus 5 C / 21F and in the summer it can be 35 C / 80 F

so I don't know where you keep your battery, most standard Flooded Lead Acid (FLA) likes to be at 15 C /60 F and any variation from this ideally requires 'temperature compensated charge regime' to get the most life.

So ask your supplier your battery's spec and if they don't know buy your battery elsewhere, I consider it a biggie.

So with this and a battery temperature monitoring regulator you have the chance to have much closer monitoring and with the result that your battery will last alot longer.

So what does it mean to you the end user if you have a well set up battery temperature compensated charging system ?

1)you can charge as fast as your battery can handle rather than nearest safe guess that a non temperature compensated system can deliver in worst case situation.
2) You have a much higher chance of not creating such a dangerous environment when your battery is in a hot engine room say 50C / 120F
3) Your battery will last longer and if your alternator has the grunt to do it then you will charge faster with no resultant loss of battery life.

The following is a little of topic but may still be relevant / useful

regarding a backup secondary voltage regulator in case of failure.

Piece of cake as the MC214 is set up to take a ford plug so buy a ford regulator and mount it beside your MC214 pull the plug off the mc214 and plug it directly onto the ford. Talk to your local sparky if you wish and they'll confirm what regulator will suit. I'd suggest you turn power off to the regulator before switching.


Checking your Flooded Lead Acid (FLA)

one way to check if your system is overcharging in rough seas without a meter is to touch the negative battery terminal if it feels warmer than ambient temperature and or you can smell rotten bananas it's probably overcharging. Another way is to monitor your electrolyte consumption, it should use a little each month, if this stops or increases , I'd be wondering why.
Best Flooded Lead Acid (FLA) battery tester of the lot including hundreds of dollar battery monitors with computer support I've found is a $15 temperature compensated hydrometer and a notebook, test monthly during your steam home when you're wondering how you'll spend the catch keep a 1.5 soda bottle full of fresh water next to you during testing in case any acid gets on your pants. I use a torch and mirror for the difficult to see cells.

re alternators with built in regulators and temperature compensation

I suspect the temperature compensation talked about in the article is both to protect the alternator and the battery as these regulators most probably originated from an automotive application where often the battery lives under the same bonnet in the engine compartment so reducing the voltage when the alternator and probably the battery gets hotter is usually a good idea, often after a run in summer the under bonnet hot soak temperature will often exceed 100 C / 212F.


a word on alternator RPM

All alternators have an optimum RPM
Faster equals more cooling (so you can work it harder without letting the smoke out) and higher charging at lower engine revs ( say 2kts trawl speed).
Faster equals more HP required to drive it.
Too much faster equals more chance of the alternator rotor winding letting go.
most alternators run happy as between 6 and 9 000 rpm
some bosch load handler 1.5+kw alternators will run alot faster
again consult the alternator supplier, often alternators are now supplied with rpm / output curves.


Most automotive alternators retrofitted into the marine environment last if they are only run as hard as 2/3 max output so keep your 90 A leece Neville at 60 A and it'll last till you're an old fart.

If I can keep my hand on the central laminated portion of the alternator while running for 1.5 seconds or more I'mn happy.

The Balmar are rated at full output continuous.


How to tell if your alternator pulley is slipping ?

When you stop the engine put your hand on it and compare it to the rest of the alternator, a lot hotter , it's probably slipping
If you want to know when your steaming then buy a infared temperature gun from ebay $20~30 measure the pulley (paint your measuring spot a matt colour or a piece of masking tape for accuracy and repeatability (google emistiivity and infared temperature measuring if interested why)
also these temp guns are handy as a quick check of your freezer temperature or each exhaust runner to see all pots running nice.
Any tighter than enough to stop slipping is using up bearing life on all the belt run.


A word on FLA Depth of Discharge (DOD)

Despite the glossy brochure to get maximum life / number of cycles don't discharge your FLA more than 30% from fully charged
(70 % remaining) so yes 2/3 of your battery is useless



When is a battery considered it's time to replace ?
that's up to you,
often this is when it is 80% or less of new condition.



A cool engine room is a happy engine room
and may your fish hold runneth over


Kind regards Donald

 

[tjblaser]

1. Say you want to start from factory defaults after messing with various settings....

---change the battery type to something else, like from flooded to agn, let it save, then switch back and let it save again.

2. Another good trick is to do your programming without the engine power on and the oil pressure buzzer running.....

---make a long jumper wire with two female spade connectors at one end, enough length to get to a positive voltage point, and an alligator clip on the other end. I used Red wire and the blue sized crimp connectors.

--- Turn the Ford plug upside down and plug in only to the very bottom male spade connector until the regulator. Now the black wire end of the ford plug is connected only.
---
Connect the two female spades on the wire you just made up to the two regulator connectors next to the black ground from the Ford plug. Connect the alligator clip to a positive voltage source. Take your time and program away!

3. Always let your changes get SAVed by letting it cycle through the settings a few times and waiting for the SAV.

4. Always measure the wire length from the battery positive to the regulator and the regulator negative to ground. Look up the right size wire, go a size larger. I had wire, breakers, and dash gauges all sized for 60 amp max. The 100 amp alternators kept getting fried. Every time the breaker tripped the field collapsed, like a coil on a car , and the voltage surge had to go somewhere like the diodes. Also fried a couple stators due to this. I had the balmars installed by a diesel mechanic but it took almost a year and two alternator rebuilds to figure out they didn't up size the gauges, breakers, and wire gauge.

Breaker should be 125% of alternator output so I needed a 125 amp breaker.

Dash gauge stopped at 60 amp, new gauge went to 100.

Disconnect the jumper wire, flip the Ford plug over, and go cruising! It sure was nice to see the dash gauge go to 90 amps !

Regards,
Tom
1988 Grand Banks 46 #29
Twin CAT 3208T's

 

[ReedStr]

Followup to my original post

Thanks everyone for the helpful tips in the responses above. I learned a lot! I also want to add a follow-up to my original post on some of the trickier parts of setting up a Balmar.

The article from the Sailboat Owners Forum “Musings Regarding External Regulation” implies that for many if not most boat owners you rarely go into float. While this is generally true, especially if we consider that a full absorption charge to 2% of battery capacity can take 6 or more hours which when combined with a bulk charge is more that most boat owners run their engine at a stretch, there is an important case for float and that’s when you pull away from the dock with fully charged batteries for a long run up from say Seattle to the San Juans in my case. The last thing you want is for your regulators to hold a high voltage on the fully charged batteries for the 5 hours it takes to get there. So at least for me it’s important to have the regulators correctly go into float for the case of leaving the dock with fully charged batteries for a long haul up the Sound.

Which leads to one of the tricky settings for the Balmar regulators. How do you target when the regulators should drop to float? The catch of course is that alternator load is not just the load of charging the batteries but also includes the load of running the boat. This would all be much easier if external regulators could read the same ammeter my battery management system does and determine the charging regimen by the battery CAR. Or if they had a switch for “going to float now” since I can see the CAR via the BMS. But they don’t. They can only sense (via the field strength) the output of the alternator which includes both charging the batteries and the power required to operate the boat. So after running my boat after leaving the dock with fully charged batteries (so that I know all of the load is running the boat) and the radar and lights on I got an estimate of my hotel load and set the FFL (the field strength below which the external regulators drop to float) to 40 amps: 15 amps for the 2% battery CAR at “fully charged” plus 25 amps which is the most I ever saw my boat use. Since my boat often uses a little less than this I will tend to undercharge the batteries but I’ll never charge the batteries at full charging voltage pulling out into the fog in the early morning hours from the dock.

The other somewhat less tricky setting is from going from bulk to absorption. Again the article points out the switch to absorption is simply when you reach your voltage limit and you start limiting your field to maintain the voltage. This is true, however, Balmar regulators allow you to set not only the voltage limit but also the field percentage or Fba at which you switch to absorption so that you have to hit both the voltage and the output for the switch from bulk to absorption. This matters because during the bulk charging phase Balmar regulators just pour out the amps while in the absorption phase they switch back and forth, don’t ask me why I’ve just seen it happen, between absorption voltage and float voltage and very gradually approach a full charge. In other words, if you set the regulators to switch to absorption when the target voltage is reached with full field (however it might be adjusted by derating and alternator temperature) they depending on how large your alternators are relative to your battery bank your batteries won’t be very charged when you switch to, at least in the case of Balmar external regulators, a much slower charging regimen since it will spend about half the time in the “absorption” phase actually in “float.” In my case I use the Fba to target about a 90% charge rate before the switch to absorption.

Hope this helps!

 

[CMS]

Just noted this thread and it seems there is a lot of confusion around this. I can help to clarify much of it later when I have more time.

 

[thomasonw]

Monitoring battery current...

.....

Which leads to one of the tricky settings for the Balmar regulators. How do you target when the regulators should drop to float? The catch of course is that alternator load is not just the load of charging the batteries but also includes the load of running the boat. This would all be much easier if external regulators could read the same ammeter my battery management system does and determine the charging regimen by the battery CAR. Or if they had a switch for “going to float now” since I can see the CAR via the BMS. But they don’t.

....

ReedStr: I too have noted this issue with common regulators - they just have no way to tell what is happening back at the battery. Add not only the common loads you describe, but some boats also run heavy cyclical loads via an inverter: AC Refrigerators / freezers, washer/dryer units. It makes it very difficult for a voltage only regulator to understand. Looking at field drive strength can help some (only if used in conjunction with RPMs truth be told), but still that only gives an indication of what is being produced - not where it is consumed.

I do not post too often here, we are fill time cruisers and web forums are hard to gain access to from remote areas. But I did want to comment that not only do I think you are spot on, that I too had this same issue (and more seriously with the regulator going into Float too soon leaving the batteries consistently undercharged), and that I have created an open-sourced alternator regulator which does sense battery acceptance current as you described. With that am able to fully implement battery manufactures recommended charging profiles. It is currently being used in several deployments using not only LA batteries but increasingly LiFeP04 technologies.

-al-

 

[J24]

I though I would start a thread on how to set up Balmar MC-614 regulators. I've searched around and can find very little about it. To kick this off, here's how I set mine up:

I target the Charge Acceptance Rate with the Fba and FFL settings rather than time spent charging with the Blc and Alc settings because the Balmar Regulators always run through their bulk and absorption timers at least once and I don't want to over charge when I pull away from the dock with full batteries. If I set Alc to 4 hours then I will get 4 hours of absorption charging even when my battery banks are full. I know this is true. I checked with Balmar. So I leave Blc and Alc at their default settings of 3 (18 minutes).

I set Fba to 40% because in my system 40% field yields a switch to absorption at about 80 amps which given my battery bank size and my hotel load of 25 amps the 55 amp cutoff means the batteries are charged in bulk mode to about 90%.

I set FFL to 20% because that yields a switch to float at about 40 amps which with a 25 amp hotel load gets my 630 ah lifeline agm batteries pretty fully charged but still leaves me 15 amps of room to not over charge the batteries. The general idea is that I want to err on setting the FFL a little high and not fully charging the batteries since setting the FFL too low would cause the regulators to never switch to float.

I also derate the alternators to B2 although I have a alternator temp monitor so this should not be necessary.

One thing I noticed about the Balmar Regulators is that while they do a continuous Bulk charge they do a "bouncing" absorption charge. That is when they go into absorption charging they charge at the absorption voltage for a while and then fall down to float before reaching the FFL of 20%. Then they absorption charge some more and fall to float again. Eventually, when they reach 20% field while in absorption charge mode they fall into float mode and stay there. Consequently I target 90% charged in bulk mode since the "bouncing" in absorption reduces the rate of charge.

Thoughts? Different ways I should be setting up the MC-614? Am I wrong to target CAR and not time? Is there some way to set them up to achieve a really full charge but not over charge them when pulling away from the dock with already full batteries?

BRAVO! Thank you for starting this thread. I have arrived at the same conclusion you've reached. We have to adjust the "Fba" parameter to something less conservative otherwise the regulator gets fooled into thinking the battery bank is at a higher SOC than it is.

I really wish Balmar would help us with some guidance on how to refine that parameter to meet the needs of a specific bank capacity and usage.

I'll post my own results as I get there.

 

[FF]

"Breaker should be 125% of alternator output so I needed a 125 amp breaker."

As you have noticed a breaker in an alt output will usually require new diodes.

With all the electronics out there does no one make a breaker that can monitor the alt OUTPUT and then cut the FIELD current ?

 

[twistedtree]

Just restarting this thread....

Reedstr, for the past 3 years I too thought Ffl was the current threshold for the absorb to float transition, but after talking to Balmar today, I learned that it isn't. Their documentation is really quite poor in explaining all this, with sloppy use of terminology, and contradicting statements. Here's what I learned

First ffl sets the field threshold for transitioning from Float to Abs. It does NOT play a role in the transition from Abs to Float. The problem I have been having is 24hrs into a 56hr cruise, the regulator kicks back into absorb every time someone uses the microwave. The load causes the alternator output to rise, exceeding the ffl threshold, and it goes back into abs mode. To solve this, ffl should actually be set to a high value, allowing heavy external loads on the alternator without going back into absorb.

Second, Balmar's notion of Bulk and Absorb do not correspond to the industry norms for those terms. It's probably better to think of it as one single phase that encompass both.

Their Bulk stage runs until all three of the following conditions are met:

1) the bulk voltage is attained. Using industry standard terms, this is when "bulk" ends, but it is NOT when Balmar bulk ends. The next two conditions must also be met.

2) the bulk time has elapsed. This sets a minimum time in bulk mode.

3) the field voltage had dropped below FbA. This is where Balmar has smushed together the industry definitions of bulk and absorb. By industry norms, dropping below a threshold acceptance current is when absorb ends. So when this happens on a balmar, your batteries are charged, assuming you have this value set correctly.

So when a Balmar comes out of Bulk, by all other industry definitions is is actually coming out if absorb since it has BOTH achieved. The target bulk/absorb voltage, and the battery acceptance current has dropped to a prescribed level.

Now Balmar's "absorb" stage begins, and is really just a top off before going to Float. The same three criteria above must be met, except it uses the absorb voltage (Av) rather than the bulk voltage. And the regulator will only let you set the absorb voltage to something less than the bulk voltage. So all absorb really does is continue bulk/absorb for a little longer at a slightly lower voltage. Critical to note, exiting Absorb and going to float is based on FbA, just like transitioning from Bulk to absorb.

It's no wonder people find these things hard to program, or not performing as expected.

 

[twistedtree]

As a quick follow up, earlier today I increased the Ffl parameter from 40% to 80%. Given my new understanding of this parameter, this change was intended to prevent varying house loads from kicking the regulator from float back into absorb all the time. It worked. We did several loads of laundry which runs the alternator pretty hard, and the regulator stayed in float the whole time.