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LRC58Fan 08-27-2014 02:28 AM

New Long Thin, Hyper-Efficient Trawler
 
Hi Everyone,

I've been tracking Trawler and long range passage maker designs for the past 5 years with the plan of eventually buying one for family exploration around the world.

I've recently come across one that look pretty good for my application. I was wondering what other people think of this new design - what do you see as the strengths and weaknesses. I'm looking for input from more experienced cruisers - since I have yet to do any long distance cruising:

It has a range of about 6,000 miles but only burns a few gallons of fuel per hour.

Here are the details and an image below:

https://twitter.com/ArtnauticaYacht

http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/da...HYD_17C_42.jpg

Pura Vida 08-27-2014 10:08 AM

I like it. I also found some construction pictures.

Artnautica LRC58 - Boat Design Net Gallery

caltexflanc 08-27-2014 10:11 AM

Looks like a knock-off of the Dashew boats which have been around a long time now.

SetSail

FF 08-27-2014 10:15 AM

The boat looks good ,

But I would prefer hawse holes to carry the anchors , and get rid of that bow ram, an accident waiting to happen.

bligh 08-27-2014 10:51 AM

Well, looks wise, I think its pretty sharp. But..
I seems like it only has the space of a 35-40 ft boat.
If it really is a 'passagemaker' and you will be using it in that capacity, you most likely will need stabilization of some sort.
If you want it for putzing around coastally and spending time in ports, you'd be much happier with a smaller boat that has the same amount of interior room and gets the same mileage.

harbor950 08-27-2014 11:04 AM

There are considerably more photos on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Artna...002724?fref=ts

refugio 08-27-2014 12:01 PM

William Garden has designed long, narrow efficient cruisers in the past. They sell at a huge discount on the resale market because they don't align with marina slip dimensions and provide rather poor livability to cost ratio. Maybe if diesel were $10 to $20 per gallon it would start to make sense for more than 1 in a thousand boaters.

LRC58Fan 08-27-2014 01:07 PM

New Long Range, Hyper Efficient Trawler
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by caltexflanc (Post 261354)
Looks like a knock-off of the Dashew boats which have been around a long time now.

SetSail

Yes - definitely shares some similar design elements to the FPB series from Steve Dashew - but a very different design philosophy.

This new design is really focusing on cost-efficiency at all levels. The purchase price for one of these new designs (The Artnautica 58) has been estimated at $600,000. Steve Dashews' designs start at around $2.5 Million for his 64 foot boat.

I love the Dashew boats - but the price is so high. I really want to try to understand what exactly I'm giving up by going with the Artnautica design - when compared to the Dashew boat.

LRC58Fan 08-27-2014 01:19 PM

Yes - I'm thinking paravanes - but perhaps active stabilizers.

mattkab 08-27-2014 01:30 PM

I'm far from an offshore cruiser, but wouldn't you be very concerned about getting hit broadside by a decent sized wave in this type of design?

refugio 08-27-2014 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRC58Fan (Post 261414)
I love the Dashew boats - but the price is so high. I really want to try to understand what exactly I'm giving up by going with the Artnautica design - when compared to the Dashew boat.

Well, the price per pound of the boats (when you subtract out the eye popping fuel and water which total about 1/3 of the displacement for both boats) isn't that much different: $32.40 for the Artnautica, $49.29 for the FPB 64.

The Dashew appears very well finished inside - I doubt the Artnautica would be finished to that level. Beyond that, there are probably hundreds of differences, but are they important to you? For instance, the Artnautica (drawings) lack any kind of railing aft of the forward deck - that would scare the crap out of me but your appetite for danger might be different. And that raised seat aft of the house...

LRC58Fan 08-27-2014 01:33 PM

New Long Range, Hyper Efficient Trawler
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by refugio (Post 261396)
William Garden has designed long, narrow efficient cruisers in the past. They sell at a huge discount on the resale market because they don't align with marina slip dimensions and provide rather poor livability to cost ratio. Maybe if diesel were $10 to $20 per gallon it would start to make sense for more than 1 in a thousand boaters.

Yes - people have done a cost analysis of the added length and its impact on the cost of the slip costs - but if you are actually using the boat a significant amount of time (the only reason to have this type of boat I think) then its a small percent of the costs. Here is that analysis: Artnautica 58—Design Analysis

So - that doesn't bother me. And I think the resale market will change significantly over the next decade as fuel prices go up and the bias will be towards more fuel efficient boats.

And as far as fuel prices - we all know the trend and if you're planning around the world cruising - it makes a difference - especially if you want to sell the boat in 10 or 15 years.

http://www.roperld.com/science/miner...riceExpFit.gif

LRC58Fan 08-27-2014 01:35 PM

The designer / builder says that is designed for surviving roll-overs. He's building the first boat for his own use and will be using it as a live-aboard/global cruiser for a while. So it will be interesting to get his real-world perspective. And I believe a second hull is already being constructed so we'll have multiple data points pretty soon.

And as others have mentioned - the design is not so different from the Dashew FPB design - which has almost a decade and hundreds of thousands of miles of passage making under her keel. http://setsail.com

Tad Roberts 08-27-2014 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRC58Fan (Post 261427)
it will be interesting to get his real-world perspective.

I think you mean "sales pitch"......not that there's anything wrong with that....

caltexflanc 08-27-2014 02:39 PM

Well, I did use the term "knock off". It will be interesting to see what the price becomes after full testing is done.

The FPB and its clones are purpose built boats for circumnavigators and/or those who want to explore very remote places. Fuel efficiency is primarily for range, secondarily for economy. Reading the Dashew's excellent blogs and sales web site gives you a better idea for the considerations regarding safety and seaworthiness.

Capt.Bill11 08-27-2014 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRC58Fan (Post 261418)
Yes - I'm thinking paravanes - but perhaps active stabilizers.

Think gyro. Stabilization underway, at anchor and at the dock. No deployment issues, no drag or break away issues. Needs a bit of AC power to drive it.

Capt.Bill11 08-27-2014 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FF (Post 261357)
The boat looks good ,

But I would prefer hawse holes to carry the anchors , and get rid of that bow ram, an accident waiting to happen.

Do you ram things with your existing bow a lot now? :D

djmarchand 08-27-2014 03:19 PM

That $600,00 price is just a come on. At the end of the day the cost to build one of these will be within pennies per lb of the Dashew boats, probably more. And the pounds will go up once all of the passagmaking equipment has been added.

This boat seems to be an exercise in cuteness and fuel efficiency. The Dashew boats have been thought through by a world passagemaker to stand up to that kind of service. Once a couple of hulls of the Artnautica have a couple of circumnavigations under their keels and have been redesigned to take that into account that experience I would consider one. Otherwise save your money for a FPB.

David

Tad Roberts 08-27-2014 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 (Post 261458)
Think gyro. Stabilization underway, at anchor and at the dock. No deployment issues, no drag or break away issues. Needs a bit of AC power to drive it.

Add the weight of the gyro, the generator to run it, and the fuel for the generator....then up the main engine to compensate for increased drag due to increased displacement, and make the hull a bit bigger to compensate.....and so it goes until you end up with a 100,000 monster.

The boat has a mast and poles to tow paravanes, simple and relatively inexpensive.

Insequent 08-27-2014 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djmarchand (Post 261461)
That $600,00 price is just a come on. At the end of the day the cost to build one of these will be within pennies per lb of the Dashew boats, probably more. And the pounds will go up once all of the passagmaking equipment has been added.

This boat seems to be an exercise in cuteness and fuel efficiency. The Dashew boats have been thought through by a world passagemaker to stand up to that kind of service. Once a couple of hulls of the Artnautica have a couple of circumnavigations under their keels and have been redesigned to take that into account that experience I would consider one. Otherwise save your money for a FPB.

David

Or buy/build something that is not so butt ugly, and get a boat with generous, useable and safe outside deck area. Think 4 star beach resort versus 5 star Las Vegas hotel suite.:)

The FPB's are targeted at rich old farts, who don't go outside and like the AC to keep the climate just-so. Good luck to them, and to Steve for meeting the need. If I did ever win the lottery I would be more likely to pick a Nordhavn. Mind you, most of those are high, fat and slow, bloated - and ugly also. Tad, the world desperately needs someone to get one of your 56 or 80 into the water.

And another thing. If you are that concerned about oil price get something like the Kadey Krogen 42. There are two of them crossing oceans right now. Not for me, I'd want more boat. But the KK's are getting over 4nm/g. For any given trip the FPB or its knockoff will have a much, much higher fuel bill.

That feels better, I'm now going to chill for the rest of the day on my old tub....


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