IG shaft zincs

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overgill

overgill

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2013
Messages
72
Location
us
Vessel Name
Altair
Vessel Make
Island Gypsy
I am a new member and a new trawler owner.

I recently purchased a 32 IG at a very reasonable price, well as with all things nothing is free and the boat needs a lot of TLC. I have spent as much time looking through this forum as working on the boat there is a wealth of info to be had here.

To my specific question, as part of this restoration I sent the prop out for repair and was told it was junk (electrolysis). I was disappointed but not surprised considering there is not a zinc to be found on the boat. I could blame the PO but there actually is not sufficient room to put a shaft zinc.
I do understand that I can use a zinc that is incorporated into the securing nuts but I would prefer to move the shaft back and make room for a conventional shaft zinc. Before I start messing with the geometry of the boat I wanted to ask if anyone with a single engine 32 IG has this same problem?

I should make it known that the motor has been changed I am running a B series Cummings as opposed to the original Lemans. It may well be that the shaft position was altered as a result of that install. If the original Lemans had sufficient room for a shaft zinc then I should have no problem spacing the shaft back.

Thanks in advance

Sorry the boat is on the hard and shrink-ed so I don't have an avatar as yet.
 
Greetings,
Welcome aboard. Mr. o. As I understand it there is a mechanism to "zinc" the shaft and prop by means of a brush which contacts the shaft on the INSIDE of the boat and thence is connected to your grounding system. No need to move your shaft. Another possibility of to install a drive saver between your shaft flanges. THAT may give you sufficient space to install a shaft zinc. http://www.defender.com/category.jsp?path=-1|311|2349117&id=2349131
 
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Thanks RT

Wow quick reply.

That was my thought to install a shaft saver or simple spacer to move the shaft back. It would make me feel a lot better to know that the original Lemans set up allowed room for the zinc. This would tell me that the spacing from the prop to the rudder would not be to close as to introduce turbulence.

I like your idea of the wiper on the inside. Can't say I have ever seen or heard of such a set up but it makes a lot of sense in this circumstance. Any idea as to were I might get more info on such a gizmo?

Thanks again
 
When you consider moving the shaft back remember there is a rule about distance from prop to strut that is like 1 or 2 times the diameter of the shaft. Usually not enough room for the zinc and still enough clearance for cuttlass flow. Use the prop nut zinc or go inside and use the wiper bonded to your anode system.:D
 
Thanks OB

Never considered the cutlass spacing, the shaft is 1.5 inch and might allow room but as you point out there are other considerations water flow and prop to rudder spacing.


Glad I asked seems like a no brainier at this point. nut zinc and/or shaft wiper.

So looks like I will be moving forward with the drip-less install and put the shaft back as it was.

Still would be interesting to hear from an IG owner with the original set up to see how the builder dealt with this problem.

Thank you both for saving me from over thinking yet another one!
 
RTF at Post #2 is right: shaft brushes (sometimes called shaft wipers) are really a great way to go. Even if you had room to fit a shaft anode, they can & do fall off and you don't know until next haul-out. I cannot quickly find a link but Google and you will see them. Look for the type that is spring-loaded and so maintains a constant contact with the shaft. Very long-lasting, if not a one-off/permanent fix
 
Greetings,
Mr. o. Whoa! Drip-less install? First I heard of this. Personally I am dead set against them. Unless your original stuffing box is beyond repair, I would re-pack it and NOT go drip-less. I think there's a thread regarding this somewhere on this site...
 
On my current boat and my "ex" I had installed a 1" thick solid shaft spacer to allow room for a proper zinc. No problems with either boat.
And dripless packings in both as well.:thumb:
 
added a shaft brush out of a wasted zinc...through bolted it to a floating arm and wire to the bonding system...especially good for boats with limited hauls every year or two...
 
RT Firefly said:
Greetings,
Mr. o. Mr. psneeld's suggestion would work just fine but the contact surface doesn't have to be zinc. It could just as easily be a chunk of copper or steel. Pretty well anything electrically conductive will work.
Needn't be this complicated but.... Sohre Turbomachinery, Inc. - Shaft Grounding Brushes
Click to expand...

true but I like something WAY softer than the shaft.....really good ones I have seen employ spring feed carbon brushes....but seem way too "overengineered" for what they really need to be.
 
Hmg

Don't take much to get you guys going!

I just go back from working on the boat. I will give a better reply in the AM.

Thank you I am overwhelmed.
 
OK

I spent the day yesterday pulling the shaft apart, was a chore but not as bad as I expected. Anyway there was basically no packing, the packing assembly was loose on the shaft once I cut the hose connecting it to the log. The PO figured more hose clamps was the fix but all that did was tear up the hose. Amassing the boat didn't sink at the dock. This dose explain why the back of the motor is all rusted

So I am in for a shaft seal of some sort. I have read the threads regarding the drip-less and old world packing. There seems to be some strong opinions regarding both. I am leaning toward the drip less because of the no adjustment feature. I am not to concerned about the seal technology its a proven method most of us already have one in our washing machine.

I asked around about the shaft wiper and the first person I talked with has them in his sport fish and said they work fine. So it seems I should be able to purchase a set up for my rig. I will probably use the nut zinc also, a bit overkill but that is why I am called overgill.

Thank you all for your input, your knowledge turned what seemed a big problem into a simple fix.
 
Greetings,
Mr. psneeld. "WAY softer than the shaft"...Valid concern and point taken. Mr. o. IF your stuffing box was connected to the hull with a heavy rubber tube-bonus! I think these are called self aligning stuffing boxes. ONE example: http://www.californiamarine.com/images/catalogue/glenwood/STUFFING%20BOXES.pdf
another...
Packing Boxes / Stuffing Boxes / Packing Glands
IF yours is dead, I would suggest replacing it with one of the same type. If it is still viable, simply re-pack it, replace the heavy rubber tube and re-use.
"already have one in our washing machine..." Yup, but if it fails on your washing machine you end up with a wet floor. On a boat, it will take more than a mop and bucket to clean up after the failure and you're absolutely correct there ARE strong opinions pro and con. Did I tell you how I REALLY feel?
 
Larry that is an interesting tool. You could do your own analyses not bad for the $$, something to consider for next season.

I found a shaft wiper not a lot of $. (Electro Guard) surprising its not a very common item none of the regular suppliers seem to have them. It is basically a piece of bronze screwed to a piece of stainless.

So RTF If I were to repack the existing stuffing box how do you feel about the Teflon type stuffing material. I am told it is basically drip less.
 
RTF

Thanks for the tutorial/s. Even an old dog like me can still learn or at least think so.

Been working to get the flange off the shaft, its not cooperating. No flange removal no stuffing box or drip-less.

Have a great holiday
 
Try taking the flange bolts off and putting a socket between the engine flange and the end of the shaft. Make sure the set screw is out. Put the bolts back in and carefully tighten them and it should press the shaft out of the flange. Wouldn't hurt to soak it with Kroil on something similar. Good luck.

Bib
 
Be careful not to bend or break the flange on the tranny using the "socket trick"...plenty of people have done that damage and it costs more in the long run than just cutting the old flange off and getting a split coupling....which makes shaft removal easier in the future when you work on your new dripless.

It does cost a couple hundred as you have to take it to a machine shop to have it fitted and trued...but worth it.

I cut mine off in less than 5 minutes and I never worried about the tranny flange after I tried the socket for about 1 minute and nothing budged.

I used a 4 inch grinder with a cutting wheel, always cut into the keyway in case you go too deep so you don't score the shaft. When you get the new flange it comes with a new key anyhow.
 
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Greetings,
VERY careful application of heat (propane torch for example) around the flange might assist removal. Did I mention be VERY careful and have a fire extinguisher close at hand. NOT to be tried on a gas fuelled vessel.
 
While a good suggestion RTF...too much heat and you destroy the rear seal on the tranny and you wind up in the same boat.

Every pro I know recommends cut it off if you don't already have a split coupling...you are just taking too much of a chance damaging the tranny.

I have also read that regular couplings aren't reusable as the rust that has formed that is preventing removal doesn't allow perfect alignment afterwards.

I think that is a stretch...especially for a slow moving shaft on a trawler....and plenty of people do it without noticeable issues (at least to them)....

MY strong recommendation is stop wasting energy....as frustration becomes the fuel to actions that result in maintenance damage and bite the bullet. If a spacer works with little time and energy...great...but most people press on till something bad happens to the tranny.
 
Greetings,
Mr. psneeld. Valid arguments to be sure but as I understand it Mr. o wants to remove the flange from the shaft. VERY, as I mentioned, careful heating of the coupling while remote from the transmission flange should minimize damage to the transmission seal. I'm NOT suggesting heating the flange to cherry red or even close to that but a gentle QUICK heating may help removal. The ideal IMO would be to QUICKLY hit the flange with an oxy/acetylene flame but such a source is uncommon amongst the general populace and requires an amount of skill and perception.
To be sure, cutting the flange and replacing with a split coupling is quite a viable and indeed may be the best option. Just throwing some ideas out there. Mr. o. DON'T burn down your boat!!!!!!
 
Wrapping the tranny end with a wet (cold) rag will help keep heat from damaging the rear seal if the heat method is used.
However a split coupling is still a much better product. One thing sure, it will make removal next time easy.
 
Interesting I spent most of yesterday chasing down a puller and on the way to the marina it dawned on me that I didn't need a puller. Thought I was a genius till I mentioned the idea and was told that was the way to do it.

Anyway I have been using the socket method and Very careful application of heat (propane torch). At one point I climbed out to take a breather and heard a sound seems it did move a bit. Continued efforts didn't yield much left it in compression overnight. Try again today.

I have to agree this put enormous pressure on the trany flange. had not considered cutting and replacing. I actually have a lath so it may be worth my going with a split flange. My 4 inch air driven cutter could probably do the job but its a good size piece of metal. I will look into the flange idea and if I don't have any results today will consider that option.

Thank you again, I have had boats all my life but this trawler is putting me in new worlds. Like never had a diesel, or a single, never had to pull a flange, the sanity check is very helpful when breaking new ground.
 
That was quick!

I did a web search and came right up with a site having what I would need for short $$.

I could even cut off mine and replace with another solid one. A lot better than risking damage to the trany.

Good input.
 
Mine cut like butter with the 4" grinder and cutting wheels...lots'o sparks so being vigilant is important....

PLEASE don't put a solid coupler back on...that's why you are where you are now! make it easier for the next time whether you or the next guy.

Either way the shaft has to be trued and the coupler mated at right angles...if you can do that great..but take her to a machine shop if you can't.

2 years ago I had a shop purchase and true my shaft and coupler...plus flame spray some pitting where my stuffing covered the shaft.
 
psneeld said:
Mine cut like butter with the 4" grinder and cutting wheels...lots'o sparks so being vigilant is important....

PLEASE don't put a solid coupler back on...that's why you are where you are now! make it easier for the next time whether you or the next guy.

Either way the shaft has to be trued and the coupler mated at right angles...if you can do that great..but take her to a machine shop if you can't.
QUOTE]

And remember to use an anti-seize compound of some sort or a little grease so either type of coupling can be removed a little easier next time..on the coupling and the flange bolts.
Click to expand...
 
Sorry have been trying to get back in for a day or so, my internet provider was not providing.

I have not been back to the boat for the last couple of days so it is still siting there in compression. If the boat gods are with me it may let go and I can move forward from there. More likely I will be cutting it and replacing with new.

I can see how a split flange may require truing but as to a solid flange what are you truing? Assuming the flange was machined in the conventional manner the bore would have to be true to the mating face. I only argue this point because I am not in a big hurry to pull the shaft. (requires the rudder be removed also). It has been suggested that I slide the new flange on and measure the face for true with an indicator. If we assume the flange true as built then it is the shaft that is out. I would agree that this tolerance gets very critical when dealing with high RPM say 3K or better but at the shaft speeds us slow and steady guys run it is likely much less critical.

Maybe I am just trying to talk myself out of pulling the rudder.

Thanks again for the awesome input and learning conversation.
 
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