Initial Budget

[Josan89]

What costs do I have to consider when preparing the budget to buy a boat other than the price of the boat + Tax?

Thanks for your reply.

JV

 

[jwnall]

Other than maintenance (which varies according to the condition of the boat you get) the main costs will be slip rent and fuel. Also do not forget to have a slip lined up before buying a boat -- sometimes they can be hard to find. I am assuming that you are not talking about a trailerable boat, of course. Sounds strange, but I actually know a couple that bought a boat and then could not find a place to berth it. They were lucky to be able to find a private dock that would let them stay there (at a cost) until they could get a regular slip.

 

[FF]

Changes in the operating use of the boat can be very very expensive.

IF you are purchasing a boat that has been cruising and will continue to cruise , there should be no big i$$ues.

IF you like the lifestyle of the PO.

If you are purchasing a dock queen and need to fit a windlass , ground tackle , a battery bank and method of charging and monitoring (SOC meter) refrigeration, auto pilot , heat or air cond. and suitable running lights for intl. waters the pri$e can get to $20.000 really fast.

And thats with YOU knowing how to and installing it.

And having a deep enough knowledge base to know what to select and why.

 

[Knot-Enuff]

Don't forget about insurance. If you plan on keeping your boat at a marina, they differ as to the amount of coverage they want you to maintain. jk

 

[Josan89]

I am assuming that you are not talking about a trailerable boat, of course.

What I'm interested in a trailerable trawler or similar. May concern regarding the budget is about registration, insurance, fees or similar.

Depending on the condition I will need to create a repair budget for the boat, but I would like to know from the point that I buy the boat to the point that I take it "home" what I cost I need to consider.

Thanks.

JV

 

[jwnall]

What I'm interested in a trailerable trawler or similar. May concern regarding the budget is about registration, insurance, fees or similar.

Oh, OK. Then besides the initial price of the boat, you will pay Florida sales tax and the registration fee. Registration fee varies from county to county, but figuring on a yearly fee of $50 will probably not be too far off the mark.

I'm not really sure about the insurance, since I only have liability insurance on mine. But other forum members can no doubt address that for you.

 

[CPseudonym]

A bit of a loaded question but how about 3 x your local monthly berth rent for a ball park number? 10% of purchase price annually is a really popular rule of thumb.

Berth rent, insurance, towing policy, fuel, bottom cleaning/diver, haul out and bottom paint, equipment breakdown/upgrades, routine maintenance... And the beat goes on. You have some control over those costs and can learn to do most of them yourself over time. Get costs for these goods and services locally and you'll see most services are by the foot. Bigger the boat the bigger the expense typically. Find your comfort zone for annual recurring expense then worry about finding a boat.

I figure if a person divides their boat money stack in half and buys the boat with one pile and saves the other for upgrades and expenses they'll be a very happy boat owner. It'll certainly curtail any financial stress as pleasure boats are supposed to be fun.

I'm a bit of a simpleton though, ask around

Edit: Told ya I was a simpleton, missed the part about trailerable

 

[jwnall]

. . . towing policy,

Yup. Forgot about that. That one is not a luxury in my book -- it is a necessity! I think my Boat US policy is about $141 a year if I remember correctly, and if you only have to be towed one time every three years or so you will still be ahead of the game.

 

[beachbum29]

I always figure cost x 2 for initial costs. That will usually cover most improvements and fixes the first year.

 

[Josan89]

So the cost may be then. Price of the boat +tax (Trailer if the tralier is not included with the boat), registration, insurance that allow me to trail the boat. Does the boat need to be inspected by Coast Guard before been use?

 

[jwnall]

So the cost may be then. Price of the boat +tax (Trailer if the tralier is not included with the boat), registration, insurance that allow me to trail the boat. Does the boat need to be inspected by Coast Guard before been use?

Answering the last question . . . no. But with a caveat. When you are on the water, they do have a right to inspect it. So long as you are carrying the required equipment on board you are generally OK on that front. I suppose that in theory they could say that it is not seaworthy and make you put it back on the trailer. But I have never heard of them doing that (although we do have some ex-USCG guys on here that might want to comment on that).

Your automobile insurance agent can most likely add the trailer to your car insurance policy.

Sounds as if you may be on a tight budget. Don't forget the old saying: "A boat is a hole in the water into which one pours money."

 

[Tom.B]

Just to give a different perspective to this:

We bought our 80's trawler for about $75k... In four years, we've spent far more than that in maintenance. Yes, newer boats and trailerable boats *MAY* have less upkeep, but as the owner of a million-dollar and brand new yacht told us one time... "The difference in my boat and yours is that all the **** that breaks on my boat is new."

It really is way more expensive of a lifestyle than I would have imagined.

 

[Baker]

Answering the last question . . . no. But with a caveat. When you are on the water, they do have a right to inspect it. So long as you are carrying the required equipment on board you are generally OK on that front. I suppose that in theory they could say that it is not seaworthy and make you put it back on the trailer. But I have never heard of them doing that (although we do have some ex-USCG guys on here that might want to comment on that).

I would like some clarification here. I realize that the CG has jurisdiction on the water but do they have the same access to board your boat(ie no probable cause) if the boat is NOT documented? I was under the impression that if it is documented, then they have full access to your boat...by definition of documentation. But do they have that same access if it is NOT documented????..We are talking legalities here!

 

[Vashon_Trawler]

Just to give a different perspective to this:

We bought our 80's trawler for about $75k... In four years, we've spent far more than that in maintenance. Yes, newer boats and trailerable boats *MAY* have less upkeep, but as the owner of a million-dollar and brand new yacht told us one time... "The difference in my boat and yours is that all the **** that breaks on my boat is new."

It really is way more expensive of a lifestyle than I would have imagined.

Maintenance, insurance, and restoration costs have exceeded what I paid for my boat within the first year of ownership. Granted, I've put a lot of work into my "trailerable" trawler but it is far more than anticipated. Used boats always have surprises. Budget appropriately and expect the unexpected. Address repairs right away and be willing to hire an expert--particular with fiberglass work. Gauge how much your time is worth.

I'm fortunate, however, that fuel costs are minimal for my boat (1/2 to 3/4 gallons per hour at 5.5 to 6.5 knots).

 

[jwnall]

I would like some clarification here. I realize that the CG has jurisdiction on the water but do they have the same access to board your boat(ie no probable cause) if the boat is NOT documented? I was under the impression that if it is documented, then they have full access to your boat...by definition of documentation. But do they have that same access if it is NOT documented????..We are talking legalities here!

I'll go out on a limb here, because I never did any maritime law. And will gladly be corrected by someone who does know. But my understanding is that they do have the right to board whether it is documented or not, so long as it is on navigable waters. Again, will be more than glad to be told that I am wrong if I am wrong.

 

[Marlinmike]

Paying for the boat and all the legal paperwork will get you into the park, after that the draining of your wallet will ensue, but there is nothing like it if you love being on the water. All the best!

 

[Baker]

I'll go out on a limb here, because I never did any maritime law. And will gladly be corrected by someone who does know. But my understanding is that they do have the right to board whether it is documented or not, so long as it is on navigable waters. Again, will be more than glad to be told that I am wrong if I am wrong.

Not a question of the "right to board". It is a question of a right to board without probable cause. The fact that a boat is documented basically surrenders your rights to the CG and allows them to board without probable cause. The cops have the right to search your car.....as long as there is probable cause.

As an aside, the Texas Game Warden is able to board your boat without probable cause as well. The game wardens in Texas have the most power of any peace officer.

Sorry if we are drifting off topic.

 

[Bay Pelican]

Baker

By statute the US Coast Guard can board any vessel in US territorial waters. This has been challenged multiple times over 200 years but the Coast Guard's right to board has been upheld.

To my knowledge the Revenue Cutter Act(?) has never been tested with respect to a land locked lake.

Marty

 

[Baker]

Baker

By statute the US Coast Guard can board any vessel in US territorial waters. This has been challenged multiple times over 200 years but the Coast Guard's right to board has been upheld.

To my knowledge the Revenue Cutter Act(?) has never been tested with respect to a land locked lake.

Marty

Ok, thanks!!!

 

[jwnall]

Baker

By statute the US Coast Guard can board any vessel in US territorial waters. This has been challenged multiple times over 200 years but the Coast Guard's right to board has been upheld.

To my knowledge the Revenue Cutter Act(?) has never been tested with respect to a land locked lake.

Marty

I would agree with that. I knew that I had seen it somewhere. And since we are veering so wildly off course, will just append this bit (and then I will shut up.) This is quoted from an article:

"Sorry, but when it comes to Coast Guard boardings, you don’t have any rights.
I’m surprised how many boaters don’t know this. The US Coast Guard can board your boat any time they want, and look anywhere they want, without probable cause or a warrant. They can do this on the open sea, or while you’re asleep aboard in your marina at midnight. They can look through your bedsheets, in your lockers, in your bilges, in your jewelry box, or in your pockets. They can do it carrying just their sidearms, or they can do it carrying assault rifles. They can be polite about it or they can be rude, but mostly they’re polite.
If you’re an avid boater you can expect to be boarded every year or two.
I explain this to my guests aboard Condesa, some of whom are lawyers, and I’m met with disbelief: “But that’s a blatant violation of your constitutional rights! They need probable cause, or a warrant from a judge!”
“Not on a boat, my friend, not on a boat.”

Why can the Coast Guard search our boats without a warrant or probable cause, when the police can’t search our homes, cars, offices, motorhomes etc.?
It’s always been this way. The same congress that passed the Bill of Rights passed the Revenue Service Act of 1790, which gave revenue cutters the right to search any vessel anywhere in US waters, and any US-flagged vessel anywhere in the world.

 

[THD]

Baker-the USCG right to enforce the applicable laws does not rest on whether or the boat is documented. Its jurisdiction extends to all boats on navigable waters of the US. Every boat, regardless of whether documented or not, has to abide by the laws/regs regarding safety equipment, etc. The USCG has the right to board and inspect for that. One note, generally, the USCG does not have the unfettered right to "search" your boat without some probable cause to do so. For example, they cannot board to check safety gear and then start opening cabinets or pulling up hatches. They have to either have outside information to go beyond the usual safety check or they have see something "in plain sight" while doing the safety check to be able to undertake a full search. Note also that the right to board for the safety check extends to pretty much anywhere in the world. Any US registered vessel, whether documented or state registered, is considered a little piece of the US floating around in the ocean, so the USC can board anywhere.

On a fun note, I have seen two yachts and one large (500'+) ship where the USCG and the DEA were convinced there were drugs hidden on board and after they finished searching, the boats were not a pretty sight. Pretty much torn to shreds. On the ship, they tore up deck plates, pulled just about all the piping out, they must have done $millions in damage.

 

[BruceK]

Lots of good advice above. Whatever you think it will cost, it will likely be more, so make a contingency allowance. A boat kept on a trailer should reduce outgoings, not just for a mooring or slip, but it gives you the opportunity to do work at home at leisure with ready access to tools, home workshop, etc. Your greatest cost will probably be in the first year or so as you put things right, how you like them.

 

[psneeld]

Baker-the USCG right to enforce the applicable laws does not rest on whether or the boat is documented. Its jurisdiction extends to all boats on navigable waters of the US. Every boat, regardless of whether documented or not, has to abide by the laws/regs regarding safety equipment, etc. The USCG has the right to board and inspect for that. One note, generally, the USCG does not have the unfettered right to "search" your boat without some probable cause to do so. For example, they cannot board to check safety gear and then start opening cabinets or pulling up hatches. They have to either have outside information to go beyond the usual safety check or they have see something "in plain sight" while doing the safety check to be able to undertake a full search. Note also that the right to board for the safety check extends to pretty much anywhere in the world. Any US registered vessel, whether documented or state registered, is considered a little piece of the US floating around in the ocean, so the USC can board anywhere.

On a fun note, I have seen two yachts and one large (500'+) ship where the USCG and the DEA were convinced there were drugs hidden on board and after they finished searching, the boats were not a pretty sight. Pretty much torn to shreds. On the ship, they tore up deck plates, pulled just about all the piping out, they must have done $millions in damage.

Correct...a lot of people don't realize the difference in boarding for a safety check and a "search"....

I'm pretty sure (well in the old days when I was in the thick of it)...if drugs or contraband aren't found...you can send a bill for damages done....that's why in very few instances the destructive searching starts untill positive and substantial probable cause exists...IE...at least some trace of contraband is found.

 

[Stagalv]

IIRC, it's title 14, section 89 of the US Code that gives the Coast Guard the ability to (SEASII) Search, Examine, Arrest, Inspect, & Interrogate.

 

[CPseudonym]

Interesting stuff guys worthy of its own thread but hardly applicable to the OP's question. He asked if an inspection was needed before use, nothing about search, seizure or narcotics law

Josan, no Coast Guard inspection is needed prior to taking your boat out. There are courtesy inspections offered by the CG Auxiliary and Power Squadron groups that are voluntary but beneficial to boaters, especially newer ones. Those same two groups offer basic seamanship classes that are also very worthwhile to attend offered nationwide at various locations.

 

[FF]

that's why in very few instances the destructive searching starts untill positive and substantial probable cause exists...IE...at least some trace of contraband is found.

Dockside boats have been shredded because a dog barked as it walked the dock.

 

[Irdiverdan]

Interesting stuff guys worthy of its own thread but hardly applicable to the OP's question. He asked if an inspection was needed before use, nothing about search, seizure or narcotics law

Josan, no Coast Guard inspection is needed prior to taking your boat out. There are courtesy inspections offered by the CG Auxiliary and Power Squadron groups that are voluntary but beneficial to boaters, especially newer ones. Those same two groups offer basic seamanship classes that are also very worthwhile to attend offered nationwide at various locations.